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Trouble with tactics
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Old 27 Sep 2006, 01:49   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Trouble with tactics

Altough i have been reading up on Marines for 2 years or so now, I still have troubles when I am actually in a game. I dont' know whether its that im uncoordinated with my army or not, but I just seem to not to good. I recently got destroyed by orks (actually getting out shooted...it made me want to stop playing 40k). Some guy there helped me a ton, but I still feel like I have no clue of what I'm doing. I know this is a very broad topic. I hope to get my marine list up sometime, but I don't have the time tonight. But I was wondering if anyone could point me to A) Basic Marine Tactics and/or B)Good Marine List Building and anything else, like deployment stuff. I really need help-I'm ashamed to say I believe I'm a Marine Noob. i just hope to get out of this...noobiness. Its annoying.

And sorry for the really broad topic.
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Old 27 Sep 2006, 02:09   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

Hey man,

No worries. Just post up all the models you have or can have, and we'll go from there. A lot of the fight is done via the list; sad to say it so boldly, but it's true. A good list can help you go a long way. And knowing how to use it, goes even further. Forming a strategy with it, and applying it in-game, via tactics, is something we'll talk about and base off the models you have at the point level you're playing, based on various opponents and based on missions. Another thing is we need all the details about how you game from you: (a) do you play missions, (b) what point levels typically, (c) is it just kill-the-opponent type games? Etc,.

I'm sure with a little input from everyone here, you'll be smashing enemy armies off the board in no time (though it greatly depends on your models).

Note: Be prepared to keep an open mind and be open to totally different ideas and approaches to this than you already have. Something you may think is great, may not be and something you thought was poor, may be your greatest weapon.

Cheers!
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Old 27 Sep 2006, 02:24   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

Oddly enough allot of people have a bit of trouble getting into the marine mindset after having played and mastered a differant race. Folks tend to expect allot out of a marine army that they wouldn't otherwise hope for with another army... just something about those beefy stats, incredible morale rules, and rock hard saves that leave you tossing your Emperor's finest into the jaws of death. While I don't have any websites or threads in general that I can point out, I do have a few basic pointers that I can toss your way in hopes of helping.

Take a step back from the 2000 point matches for a bit, allot of "veterens" scoff at the idea of playing 40k in 40 minutes, they even turn there noses up at 1000 point games. These low points matches give you a excellent chance to get a feel for what your troops can and can't do. Your opponent and table will dictate how you set up and play most matches, find out what type of unit fills each of your "niches"... you might amaze yourself at what you find (I personally can't use assault marines, and instead rely on tac squads with rhino's for that role)

Make it a point to play against opponents that field your previous army. It helps out a ton when you already have a good idea what you're up against, leaving you with only your own units to actually worry about.

Don't be afraid to use what you already know! I've seen incredible tau players pick up a marine force and suddenly decide that all marines are good for is assaulting... while I have lost my share of shooting matches I have also won my fair share of ranged attrition wars.

Don't beat yourself up over losses... I'd say roughly 80% of the armies I face are tailor built for marine hunting. Until you get a solid handle on your army it'll be hard to face an opponent that's designed to kill you.

Lastly and probably the biggest thing I can think of is to learn what you need to be afraid of. Your target priority as a marine is differant than say imperial guard... fast moving template weapons can still hurt but that Storm trooper squad with 3 plasma weapons is allot scarier to our boys in power armor.

Good hunting S, every army takes some learning... and don't feel too bad about those orcs, I've had my army chewed to ribbons on more than one occasion by those blasted shootas. It happens to us all
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Old 27 Sep 2006, 09:04   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

one mind set i had troubles with and sometimes still do is play your game and stick to it. this can be hard as sometimes early pressure can make you choice to do something you wouldn't do. just remember don't play your opponents game play your game and stick to it. tau is a good army at doing this expically if it's mech by forceing you to make very hard decisions, nids and orks do this quite well too by putting early pressure on you to make harsh decisions.
good luck!
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Old 27 Sep 2006, 11:34   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgue

Take a step back from the 2000 point matches for a bit, allot of "veterens" scoff at the idea of playing 40k in 40 minutes, they even turn there noses up at 1000 point games. These low points matches give you a excellent chance to get a feel for what your troops can and can't do.
I totally agree with Morgue, I have posted some small tactical help here and there to people and one was playing smaller games. Smaller point games give you a real taste of what one particular unit can do.

Example based on a 1k army: A marine tactical unit (I play Black Templars and Space Wolves) can be set-up for shooty or for assault. So if you pick Shooty, I make this unit my Main unit and now I set-up to work around that unit. I do this by giving it a support unit or two. This maybe in the form of another back-up shooty unit and another Cheaper unit I use to draw fire or prevent an assault unit from taking them down.

In other words, when you make your list you have to design you army around a certain game plan. So you have to ask yourself, Am I going to hammer my oppent to death with Bolter fire? Or am I going to get up close and personal and be slapping guys around with Powerfists? And then how should I go about doing this?

For example on my army: I play Black Templars but with a mix of shooty goodness and Powerfist in you face type unit. So I plan these units out so these guys work together.

I start off with my main unit: It is 18 strong and is desinged to walk up and hit you hard! While at the same time, my support units are softening up the enemy units with ranged fire from my two support units and dred who walks in behind main walking unit. I also have a Vendi running up near by drawing fire as well. So, all my units really are working together on one way or another so they can all try to accomplish the same task, which is getting that main unit in my enemy back lines. Should my enemy be mobile, my shooty units and dred become my main units I use to take enemy units down while Large unit and Vendi are deployed to complete various tasks.

Good Luck
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Old 27 Sep 2006, 16:58   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

Stam's written a very comprehensive Space Marine Army Guide. It covers the basics of wargear selection all the way up to some more advanced strategies for unit planning and combined arms tactics. Take a trawl through there some time, you don't have to read it all, but if you're a newbie then it should highlight some specific do's and don'ts that perhaps you are unsure of?
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Old 27 Sep 2006, 19:00   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

Don't let a loss discourage you from playing 40k. You've just got to learn from your mistakes. I could go on but I'm sure the link postyed above will give you all the info you need. Good luck.
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Old 27 Sep 2006, 22:43   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

Thanks, this is helping s bit. And for models, I currently have;

Roughly 30 marines, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Flmaer, 1 Plasma Gun, 2 Meltas
1 Rhino
1 land Raider
1 Whirlwind
5 Assault Terminators
1 Dreadnought (Can use any Config.)

Unassembled is 5 Assault Marines and a Predator

I am looking for a kind of shooty army, but one that is mobile and not "Stand and Shoot." I recently did a Drop pod army list that used a lot of medium ranged and a lot of specialist weaponry. I liked it, but i am limited by my models. howeverm I may sell anything I don't need, and am open to ANY suggestion. I don't have time to post it though...sorry.

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Old 28 Sep 2006, 01:06   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

Hmm what HQ do you use cause I dont see one in the list. For simplicity you can just go with a cheap master for the leadership bonus. Then if you want shooty I would use the Predator and Whirlwind for now. Equip a 10 man tactical squad with the missil launcher and plasma gun. They sit and shoot. Make two other 10 man squads and give them the melta guns. You can move them forward to a more advanced position and set up more close ranged fire. The commander you take can go with them and back them up.

Dont use the assault terminators for now, they are only really useful in a LRC as its pretty much the only way to get them across the field and into the enemy without them getting shot to peices and even then its an expencive and untrustworthy method. The Dreadnaught if you want shooty can take the assault cannon and ML or TL las and ML. Either is fine, the assault cannon doubles as anti infantry but also has nice tank hunting abilities where as the TL las is a little better IMO at taking down AV14 vehicles you may face and is good for insta killing.

The assault marines I would suggest giving the sergeant a power fist and a couple plasma pistols in the squad is good way to go as you get them at a significant discount to the normal. Equip them with melta bombs and you have a fast moving tank hunting unit thats good in close combat and has a burried power fist. You can get a chaplain to go with them and make them fearless aswell as even better in cc.

The rhino you can give to one of your mobile marine squads and use it as moving terrain to limit your opponents LOS or block them with its bulk. Its so cheap why not, if the enemy wants to waste their fire to get rid of it, fine. If they try to go around it well you have a tank that can shock them and a storm bolter that can harass them and block their lines of fire.

Just some suggestions.
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Old 28 Sep 2006, 01:56   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trouble with tactics

I have a very shooty troop based army. About 60 tactical marines and over 20 scouts. I also like to be mobile and not stand and shoot. So I usually have a devastator squad to deal with armored units and they stay safe in the back. But fielding scouts to disrupt your enemies advances in the first few turns helps to allow your tactical squads to move foward somewhat underhindered. I back them up with dreadnaughts as opposed to using tanks. I actually don't own any marine tanks other than rhinos. And I will field my assault squad to deal with any holes in my lines or to back up the tactical marines. I have some terminators and a bunch of fast attack but I rarely use them. I think massive amounts of troops is the way to go. My suggestion is get some scouts and a dreadnaught.
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