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Good way to use a dreadnaught
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Old 06 Sep 2006, 16:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Good way to use a dreadnaught

hey everyone

i just learned this in my last game and i think it could be useful.

if you are against chaos and they have beserkers put your dread into combat with them and they cant do anything

because they are fearless so cant retreat out of combat amd are to weak to damage it
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Old 06 Sep 2006, 17:16   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

It's actually quite a common tactic (I don't mean to rain on your parade or anything); there are plenty of units out there that can't harm a dreadnought in close combat.

But the fact that chaos marines don't fall back might not be such a good thing. If you don't inflict a casualty, neither side wins the close combat and nothing happens (a likely occurance with only two attacks), even if you do inflict a casualty (or three), you're still locked in combat with them and they're permitted normal armour saves against wounds suffered as a result of the 'no retreat rule'. Your Dreadnought might be needed elsewhere, so just keep this in mind before charging such a squad. Obviously, you can't actually lose your Dreadnought in this combat, but both units will be effectively neutralised for the duration (which could last until the end of the game). If the Dreadnought's packing one of the few AT weapons in your army, then you're probably better off avoiding close combat until the enemy armour has been destroyed.

On the other side of this coin, getting into close combat with 'normal' units that can't hurt you is a good idea. They are made more likely to run because of the Dreadnoughts impact on morale in this situation...and when they do, you have a chance to cut them down with a sweeping advance! >
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Old 06 Sep 2006, 17:25   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

This is also why any commander worth his salt will make sure to put a powerfist on their Sergeant/Aspiring Champion/Nob/etc.

Because, all of a sudden, your dread is facing a whole lot of S8 attacks back, and he can't kill that champion guy until he's killed the entire squad.
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Old 06 Sep 2006, 20:16   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

Not only that it doesnt matter if their standard attacks cannot hurt you. If your dreadnaught is outnumbered (which it more than likely will) you take an automatic glancing hit. The squad does not have to destroy you, they can leave that to sheer numbers. Ive seen kroot down a furioso dread before. It can happen, be careful.

I find it much better to use a tank to draw berserkers. Because it wont be locked you can keep on firing at other targets and unless they have a powerfist they cant hurt you. This works especially well with skimmers I find. Send a few land speeders rushing back into the Khorn deployment zone but close enough to be the clossest target and if any of those berserkers go nuts they will find themselves stomping backwards to get at your land speeders and thus remaining out in the open to get shot up even more than they normally would.
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Old 06 Sep 2006, 20:30   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
Not only that it doesnt matter if their standard attacks cannot hurt you. If your dreadnaught is outnumbered (which it more than likely will) you take an automatic glancing hit. The squad does not have to destroy you, they can leave that to sheer numbers. Ive seen kroot down a furioso dread before. It can happen, be careful.
Uh, no. Try re-reading that part of the rulebook again. You know, where it says, "If you lose combat" you are subject to being overwhelmed.

If an infantry unit is unable to inflict any hits on a dreadnought, then that dreadnought cannot possibly lose combat - the worst that cna happen to it is a tie - and so no, it doesn't take extra wounds from outnumbering.
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Old 06 Sep 2006, 21:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

That may appear to be the case yes but I have to argue that some. A vehicle does not take wounds at all. The passage says this:

"Walkers (which do not have wounds) instead suffer one glancing hit if they are outnumbered by 2:1 or more. Remember the rule only applies if the unit lost the close combat in the first place."

But since a walker has no wounds one could argue it could never lose combat but that doesnt make sense as then the above quoted rule would never apply. Thus the way Ive always seen it done (even in GW store held tournaments) if a walker is outnumbered by 2:1 or more and did not cause any wounds to its enemy it loses combat and takes a glancing hit.

Its not the clearest interpretation but its the one I see agreed on most often as the rules are vague when it comes to walkers. The only other suggestion is that a walker takes "wounds" when a glancing or penetrating hit is scored but since you rarely (even with a full team of heavy weapons) get more than one such hit even from marine accurate shooting let alone close combat that is usually thrown out. Im not saying its incorrect Im just saying in the spirit of fair and balanced play the majority of games I see played do not use that interpretation.

I have yet to see a FAQ clarifying the matter.
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Old 06 Sep 2006, 22:56   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

Under the heading of 'Walkers in an assault' on page 72 of the big book, it says: 'Each roll made on the Vehicle Damage Charts against a walker counts as a single wound for the purposes of working out who won the combat.'

Can't get much clearer than that.

Looks like the GW store you visit is either playing with some house rules, or isn't actually very well versed in the rules of close combat. It's certainly not the first time GW staff have got something wrong.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 06 Sep 2006, 23:18   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

Since dreadnaughts count as 10 models for the purpose of outnumbering its very unlikely there going to be outnumbered 2:1. Also a basic SM dreadnaught set up will be much cheaper then the Average KB squad so keeping a squad of them stuck in CC while you slowly kill them can be a good idea just watch out for hidden powerfists which are not that rare.
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Old 07 Sep 2006, 01:02   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

Well there thats better. Im not surprised but actually I have read battle reports by GW where things like Kroot (with no possible way of punching armor 12) take down things like Dreadnaughts. I can see why its done as its a very cheap and annoying thing. It can tie an enemy squad up but I must admit it can be very boring as you have a Dreadnaught now stuck trying to kill a dozen or more enemies that can easily just not run and keep around and keep it tied up and that squad has no way of fighting back. 40k is about epic combats and impossible feats and such a combat is frankly boring and anti climactic. I prefere the outnumbered glancing hit. It makes sense. The rules are against it obviously but oh well. I wasnt a fan of it at first but I can see why its done.

In any case any sensible player will bury a power fist or melta bombs or something to take such nasties out. Few are stuck in such regards, the Tau for instance and guard heavy weapon teams etc.
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Old 11 Sep 2006, 20:22   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Good way to use a dreadnaught

ah i thought to lose combbat, you throw infantry with your dread into cc and your infantry lose cc, then you lose cc and so on....

what khornate general doesn't take p. Fists in squads? heck mine are s 10 on the charge... more than enough to knacker that dread....
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