Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Assassins
Closed Thread
Old 26 Aug 2006, 14:43   #1 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 11,122
Default Assassins

This is most probably in the wrong bit but as it is to do with my space marine army i though it would count.

Something i want in my army is alot of assassins. Death cult assassins and The callidus assassin are what im wanting. I just want to konw haow many assassins is too much. Im planning on 3 death cultists and 1 callidus assassin in my army wheni bump it up to 1,500 pts. My questins are:

IS THE CALLIDUS OKAY? Im primarily using it becasu of the c'tan blade and the ability to go anywhere on the table top. A good few attack on the charge should speel the doom of an enemy charachter. And in use with the terminators i currently have, my opponents attention should be on guarding himself. And thats where the assassins come in...

INFILTRATING ASSASSAINS The assains job is to distrupt anemy assault specialists for as long as possible and to guard an objective until the rest arrive. My main quirk with this is that three death cultists and the callidus costs more than a terminator squad! But bear in mind that i like the idea of them.

Is it a good idea or not? or am i going to get squised into impunity?
Nightmare is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 14:53   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertford, UK
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: Assassins

Sometimes, even a single Officio Assassinorum Operative turns out to be points wasted. They're fun though and each type of assassin appeals in different ways. I like the Vindicare because a master marksman is what I picture when I think of an assassin. If picking off characters while the enemy concentrates on your Termies is what you're hoping to do then perhaps a Vindicare is just what you need?

Be aware though that you'll need to take an Inquisitor if you want to field an Officio Assassinorum Operative or any Death-Cult Assassins (which only makes them more expensive).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
Tom Norman is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 15:35   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: Assassins

Heya Nightmare,

Welcome aboard!

To simplify your question, note the following:

You play Space Marines, and you would have to take the Inquisition as an ally, Witch Hunters or Daemonhunters, to get access to the Assassins. However, you're limited due to the limitations of allies. Normal allies allow you the following from the allied codex force: 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-1 Fast Attack and 0-2 Troop selections. Assassins are all elite choices. Allies allow you one elite choice, so you can only have an officio assassinorum operative (ie: Callidus) or Death Cult Assassins. Now, Death Cult Assassins can have up to 3x assassins in one elite slot, so you get three lesser assassins that way (they operate independently). But, you will not be able to legally get that Callidus if you take the Death Cults. And it's the same if you take the Callidus, you will not be able to take the Death Cults.

Also, as Tom pointed out, you must have an Inquisitor present in the list, and that means, you'll have to take the Inquisitor Lord option, as an allied HQ choice. They require retinues and generally cost a pretty penny very quickly, for very little. They grant you access to the Assassins (all of them). But, you're still limited to 0-1 elite selection in your ally. So you'd have to have the Inquisitor Lord (0-1 HQ ally) and the Assassin of choice (0-1 Elite ally).

For more information on all the assassins, and what they're good for, etc, I invite you to explore the following. It has everything you need to know about every single assassin including examples of use against the various enemies to help aid your choices:

[size=11pt]Officio Assassinorum Operatives - Know Thy Assassins[/size]

-- In your Space Marine army, I would suggest the Callidus. She is always good, except when facing Tyranid and Necron. Against all other opponents, she can very much shine and be an ace up your sleeve. Her abilities are two fold, as you'll read in that link above. She's useful, nearly no matter what in most situations.

Infiltrating assassins (Death Cults) especially are alone and unsupported typically. They're squishy and die fast. The best use of Death Cults, and most common use at that, is to use them to counter assault. It's important because they're very frail. So while your space marines are locked in a fight, your infiltrated assassin can jump out of the bushes and counter assault that enemy to help out your marines with some valuable power weapon attacks added to the mix. And since you can have three of these Death Cult assassins, they can lay down a fair amount of law.

The Callidus & Death Cults, and any assassins for that matter, will never hold out against anything. They're glass cannons. They hit hard, hit fast, and can take things one-on-one, as assassins are meant for. But they cannot hold up to shooting attacks at all, and they cannot take on any fights in which they're outnumbered typically. You don't want to try to hold out at objectives. You want to disrupt your opponent and counter assault and snipe out critical targets with them, so that your Marines have an easier job at the objective themselves.

Cheers!
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 16:11   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertford, UK
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: Assassins

Don't worry too much about the added cost of an Inquisitor, there's nothing to say you have to take an Inquisitor Lord; you can settle for a normal Inquisitor and avoid the added expense of a retinue (normal Inquistors have a low basic price too). You can certainly field an Inquisitor Lord and retinue if you want to though, and seeing as he's taking up an HQ slot either way, perhaps it's worth making the most of it?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
Tom Norman is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 16:12   #5 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 11,122
Default Re: Assassins

ah i seemed to have overlooked hte limits on the force organisation chart and the need to include an inquisitor.

But, is codex assassins still usable?

EDIT: ive decide to tak a cheap inquisitor with me. Just a power weapon and 3 familiars. Nothing more. not bad for 73 pts. And i have bought 3 extra assassins just because they equal the sam as a callidus.

I propose a new question: For my next 400 points or so why don't i get a load of scouts? im leaning towards building a scout based army but for the life of me i can't seem to get a proper army list together: i HAVE to include a suit of power armour! Can anyone think of a way to make a suit of scout like power armour?

SECOND EDIT: Ive decided to do a completely seperate 40k in 40 minute army, adn soup up a veteren sergeant to represent my commander
Nightmare is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 16:28   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: Assassins

Heya,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Don't worry too much about the added cost of an Inquisitor, there's nothing to say you have to take an Inquisitor Lord; you can settle for a normal Inquisitor and avoid the added expense of a retinue (normal Inquistors have a low basic price too). You can certainly field an Inquisitor Lord and retinue if you want to though, and seeing as he's taking up an HQ slot either way, perhaps it's worth making the most of it?
It's impossible to ally the assassin without an inquisitor, and the base inquisitor you speak of, is only an elite selection. That conflicts with your 0-1 limit, so if you were to do that, you could only have the base elite Inquisitor, and no room for an assassin. So yes, there is written requirement that you must have the Inquisitor Lord if you wish to ally an Assassin into your Space Marine army. The only legal means to get an assassin into your Space Marine army will be through the allying of an Inquisitor Lord (the only HQ version of the Inquisitors) and then using the allied Elite slot for the Assassin. The minimum for the Lord and his mandatory 3 henchmen minimal limit would be 63 points with zero gear and zero armor. The assassins then add to this of course. And it's very much worth at least using that Inq Lord to be useful, rather than simply treating it as a burden. They are very good at bringing a supportive wargear option (liber heresius or emperor's tarot) as well as heavy bolters and counter-option henchmen such as Mystics and Penitents which can help out big time against several threat types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare
ah i seemed to have overlooked hte limits on the force organisation chart and the need to include an inquisitor.

But, is codex assassins still usable?
Codex Assassins has been made obsolete. All assassins now come from the Inquisition codices, which are currently Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters. Codex Assassins could be used with your opponents conscent of course, but if you plan on playing in events, tournaments, etc, the codex assassins will not be used and you will be required to use the Inquisition to gain access.

Quote:
EDIT: ive decide to tak a cheap inquisitor with me. Just a power weapon and 3 familiars. Nothing more. not bad for 73 pts. And i have bought 3 extra assassins just because they equal the sam as a callidus.
-- Which codex are you allying? You can make them very effective for cheap. If you're taking Daemonhunter allies, you'd be wise to include the Emperor's Tarot and drop that power weapon (str3 power weapon? not worth it) and instead, consider a ranged attack such as the Psycannon. Also, instead of familiars which do nothing, use three mystics--they allow you to have a unit within 12" of you take free shots at deep striking enemy units (this is incredibly powerful). If you're going with Witch Hunters, pick up three penitents to shut down psychic abilities, and take the Liber Heresius for utility. Buy excruciators and hide the unit in cover somewhere for a total support scoring unit on the cheap, which isn't wasted.

Examples:

Daemonhunters - Allied Inquisitor Lord
Inquisitor Lord
-Emperor's Tarot, Psycannon
Henchmen:
Mystics x 3
108 points

You get the Emp's Tarot, which aids in your ability to get first turn more often (this helps shoot armies big time). You have a 36" ranged psycannon on your side too so that you're able to attack with some offensive power. The mystics soak up damage and then die, allowing your Inq. to be an ind. character and thus untargetable unless he's the closest to the firer (he could survive and then become untargetable for example). And if the mystics live, well, they allow you tremendous power in that you can have any unit of yours within 12" of them take free shots at every single deep striking squad that comes near them (great way to use plasma or a tank against something that shows up by surprise and you shoot them on their turn; huge tempo here).

Witch Hunters - Allied Inquisitor Lord
Inquisitor Lord
-Liber Heresius, Excruciators (* optional psychic hood)
Henchmen:
Penitents x 3
91 points

For a decent price, you get an anti-psychic ball. Hide them in deployment and use them as a cheap scoring victory point unit. The Liber Heresius allows you to choose your best deployment zone at the beginning of the game. And during the game, if you kill any psykers at all (tyranid synapse creatures, eldar psykers, librarians, etc) then you get a lot of bonus victory points from the excrutiators. You can add an optional psychic hood to counter every psychic power used in the game if you wish for a small price increase (though I left it out here). The penitents ensure that nothing psychic effects you or them (such as mind wars, fury of the ancients, etc).

Cheers!
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 16:43   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 333
Default Re: Assassins

Darn, Malveaux wrote in before me and probably said everything I want to say better, but I hate wasting a decent post, so I'm posting anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Don't worry too much about the added cost of an Inquisitor, there's nothing to say you have to take an Inquisitor Lord; you can settle for a normal Inquisitor and avoid the added expense of a retinue (normal Inquistors have a low basic price too). You can certainly field an Inquisitor Lord and retinue if you want to though, and seeing as he's taking up an HQ slot either way, perhaps it's worth making the most of it?
The point about the inquistor lord is that in order to legally ally with the inquisition you are allowed 0-1 HQ choices and 0-1 elites.

Since you want assasins, there is your elite slot.

Now assasins require the presence of an inquisitor (price goes up), but since you have used up your elite slot, your only option is to use your HQ slot the only inquisitor available in this slot is the inquisitor lord (price goes up some more). Inquistor lords require a retinue of minimum 3 henchmen (price goes up even more).

That is what is expensive. If you could take a lone gunman elite inquisitor and then your assasin(s), it would be reletively cheap. Probably too cheap. This way you are forced to have a plan for your inquistion allies in order to make the investment worthwhile.

Nightmare:
Try them! Assasins are really fun. I prefer the callidus, but used properly, those death cults can be really killy, and more importantly both disrupt enemy battle plans.
Bird III is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 16:50   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 11,122
Default Re: Assassins

Witch Hunters - Allied Inquisitor Lord
Inquisitor Lord
-Liber Heresius, Excruciators (* optional psychic hood)
Henchmen:
Penitents x 3
91 points

Plus a bolt pistol.

That makes the choice legal now.

Any comments on my scout army at all?
Nightmare is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 20:46   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertford, UK
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: Assassins

D'oh! I overlooked the Elites restriction...I sure feel stupid now.

As for your scouts, most opponents ask only that you represent everything to a satisfactory standard (eg. you don't put an unpainted Guardsman with one arm on the table and call it a Terminator). If you make your whole army out of scouts you can represent the power armour by embellishing scout armour with purity seals or dangly gold bits and call it 'artificer carapace armour', conferring an improved save. Obviously the rank and file scouts wouldn't have access to this rare equipment and it would be restricted to the leaders and veterans.

This also opens up the potential to convert a Rhino to a command vehicle of sorts for your command squads, or even custom build such a vehicle to represent it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
Tom Norman is offline  
Old 26 Aug 2006, 21:18   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 11,122
Default Re: Assassins

Nice idea. The Only problem is coming up with a full 1,000 pts of them.
Nightmare is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tau can use Assassins New Necron Lord Tau 74 21 Aug 2009 12:59
Assassins Youngy The Inquisition 20 30 Apr 2008 23:13
Assassins That Phyco Guy The Inquisition 8 12 Oct 2007 03:55
Assassins Haemonculi Minor Races 15 22 May 2007 12:05
Tau Assassins Black Behemoth House Rules 19 17 Dec 2006 21:48