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Deathwing at GT
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 06:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Deathwing at GT

Hey all,

I've decided to go to the 3rd Uk GT heat, and thought about taking my deathwing with me, unfortunately i'm still a little rusty about balancing them out, so I thought I would ask what would be a good GT list.

I understand that ideally i want an army that isn't geared to fighting one type of foe, but due to the rather specilised nature of the Deathwing, i wondered what is and isn't worth taking?

Do I go for an Infantry based force - so no transports, just Shooting Termies and Dreads? Or do I splash out on that LRC and 7 man Assault unit lead by the obligitory chaplin.

Now i know thats a one trick pony, but in the GT when your playing lots of people that you've never seen before (or fought a battle against) then perhaps it might be worth considering....

Anyhoo before I waffle on to much - how should I proceed.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 11:43   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

I would just go with the infantry based army. with the numbers you'll face you're going to need every guy you can. and the LRC costs enough that you could easily buy another unit.

its not that its a one trick pony, its that in a competitive environment like that its a lot of points that will be given up.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 16:53   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

Five Termies with a couple Assault Cannons between them can hammer out more firepower at range than a Crusader. Up close they've got powerfists (and the inexplicably overlooked chainfist). What's more, they have better survivability than a solitary vehicle (however well armoured).

I agree with Howloutloud (did I really just say that?), you get more bang for your buck with another Termie squad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 17:25   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

cmon, you know you've always wanted to agree with me .

as for the chainfists, I think the reason that they are overlooked is that they add 5 pts to an already expensive model, and the 2d6 penetration that they give you doesn't come into play enough to justify it. yes they're great once you reach a vehicle you want to destroy, but honestly you should be able to destroy the same vehicle with shooting and regular powerfists. the only exception I can see is maybe something armor 14 like the land raider, but the only ones I can think of are land raiders and their variants which most people dont' take, asdrabael vect ( I think thats his name) the special character from dark eldar but thats a skimmer and I think it goes down to armor 11 when in close combat. then theres the monolith which negates the 2d6 anyway ( and some would argue that it also negates powerfists but thats another topic) and there are a few imperial guard vehicles with 14 to the front, but they have reduced armor to the sides and rear.

overall, I think its better to save the points and just not get the chainfist, unless you have 10 pts to spare as deathwing just doesn't really have any upgrades they can take for 10pts.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 20:09   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howloutloud
cmon, you know you've always wanted to agree with me .
Don't let it go to your head, I'm still not happy about your signature.

[hr]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howloutloud
as for the chainfists, I think the reason that they are overlooked is that they add 5 pts to an already expensive model, and the 2d6 penetration that they give you doesn't come into play enough to justify it. yes they're great once you reach a vehicle you want to destroy, but honestly you should be able to destroy the same vehicle with shooting and regular powerfists. the only exception I can see is maybe something armor 14 like the land raider, but the only ones I can think of are land raiders and their variants which most people dont' take, asdrabael vect ( I think thats his name) the special character from dark eldar but thats a skimmer and I think it goes down to armor 11 when in close combat. then theres the monolith which negates the 2d6 anyway ( and some would argue that it also negates powerfists but thats another topic) and there are a few imperial guard vehicles with 14 to the front, but they have reduced armor to the sides and rear.
Below, I've included a table detailing the probabilities for scoring a penetrating hit with a single attack against a stationary vehicle (all AV values):


As you can see, the chainfist significantly outperforms the powerfist against Armour Values as low as AV12. Lower than that, the powerfist is good enough to get the job done, but it just goes to show how valuable at least one chainfist is if you can't get at the vulnerable rear armour. For just five points extra, don't overlook them. Just one chainfist per squad can help you out of a tight spot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 20:57   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

Well definately go all infantry. I've played DW for years and gave up my assault termies and LRCs awhile ago. In fact I rarely DS at all and just footslog up the table as termies are pretty resiliant. You do want a libbie w/fota for sure though. I generally rely on ACs w/ tank hunter or include a single CML squad for anti-tank but chain fists work better than pfs for sure.
I often agree with Howloutloud but then I often agree with Tom ... what a dilema!
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 22:13   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

its not hard to agree with both of us, as in most cases we agree on the same thing. we're like different sides to a coin, with me being green ( you would be too if someone flipped you every time they wanted to make a decision) and him being yellow... banana joke in there somewhere... :

assault termies in a LRC isn't bad, they can be nasty in fact. its just in a tournament you are going to want the numbers.

and as far as the chart Tom: kudos to you, I'm actually thinking of adding a few to my army now...
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 22:21   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

yes Tom is definately yellow, i mean imp fists yellow not metaphorically, lol

LRC/assault squads almost never make their points back. And they are a very expensive unit in an already low model army. They are nasty and fun but only to be used oin large games outside of tournaments. I have two LR Prometheus that I use in friendles sometimes. I just shoot them up table and unload the termies wrecking everything in their path. Maybe not so-friendly, lol
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 22:50   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by bebe
I have two LR Prometheus that I use in friendles sometimes. I just shoot them up table and unload the termies wrecking everything in their path. Maybe not so-friendly, lol
A Prometheus is expensive on its own, but it also means you're taking a Termie/Vanilla command squad which, either way, is another expensive unit. I notice you mentioned unloading termies, so I guess you fill 'em with Termie command squads? All in all, two Prometheus' and their associated passengers must total at least 1000 points! So to coin a phrase: "How do you eat yours?" - Do you charge headlong across the battlefield to deliver the troops, then merrily blaze away with the Heavy Bolters? Do you advance slowly, blasting away until you reach the enemy lines? Or a combination of both (ie. sprinting initially/at the last minute)?

Also, with so little else on the table, AT firepower must be in short supply (especially when the Termies are mounted). This is a perfect opportunity to use chainfists, even more so if your command squads are led by a chaplain. Is this a tactic you use or have you found another way around it? Catapulting chainfist-wielding Termies at tanks is very effective, but sometimes you'd rather they got the chance to shoot at/assault something else upon dismounting. So as a seasoned small-army player, what works for you?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 22 Aug 2006, 23:00   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Deathwing at GT

I'm agreeing with Tom Norman on this one. As you can see, even at AV11, the Chainfist is nearly doubly effective as the power fist. At 5 points, a single one added to an assault cannon-toting one greatly increases your chances at penetrating. What else can you purchase at 5 points? Bionics? A teleport homer? Purity seals (heheh...)?

Basically, it's a cheap little doo-dad which is excellent if you've got the extra points.
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