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Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 06:10   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

I was inspired earlier today. I was designing a Black Templars list and I had an idea. Now this was an idea spawned by a comment from this site a while back. It went something like this; "80 marines on the field is always scary". This inspired me to try to create a BT army with abslutely no vehicles. In practice, its alot of models and would be quite frightening to look at on the table. Imagine the BT having more models on the table then you do and no vehicles for all of those expensive guns to shoot at! I was wondering if anybody had tried this or even thought about it before. Any comments, stories, experiences and/or thoughts would be appreciated. Seriously, this would friggin scare the crap outta me!

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Old 17 Aug 2006, 06:31   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

Actually I have half a mind to build my Ultramarines this way. Currently I have 1000pts of pure marines, 37 marines. Something I find is that when you start seeing so many marines on the field especially in large scale battles where you cant take down a nice expencive tank in a good shot it gets scary. I mean a well dug in Devastator squad at full strength can take 6 losses without losing a heavy weapon and with a Master on the field they arent likely to run from it either. Thats 4 Heavy Weapons shooting you and not some tank you can down in one shot or stop from firing. Its not a dread you can immobolize, knock a gun off of and then forget about. Then of course you have a mass of Tactical Marines, assault marines, maybe scouts, commanders and other goodies to try and gun down before they shoot the living daylights out of you of catch you in assault. Ive seen Space Wolf armies done with all marines, Ive seen Blood Angels done with all marines, Ive seen Black Templars done with, you guessed it, all marines.

Its deffinetly a viable way to play especially as marine tanks really arent that great all around and you need a number of them to be truly effective as 1 or 2 is just going to die before you can blink as any competent army will have more than enough anti tank to blow them away with concentrated fire by turn 2 at the latest baring extremely bad luck which you should not count on.

Some armies simply have a challenge gunning down that many power armored targets. Necron armies heavy on warriors and horde pure sisters armies can be very, very nasty.

Im not sure how well it would work for Black Templars but Im sure you could do it, especially adding in some scouts to the Crusader squads to take wounds and you have the Emperors Champion and Sword Brethren aswell as some nice combat abilities that could help you close the distance over a board faster. But Im no expert on the BT.
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 07:06   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

All true. I thought it would be something like that but I don't the army to try it... yet. The biggest problem for me is the fact that BT loses alot of its mobility as far as I can tell. This can be a pain in the ass as they have also lost Dev squads. There are no devestator squads in the Black Templars army. Even the BA get devs... > Oh well. Anybody else?

Steel Skeleton

P.S. Thanks Vash. I wasn't sure anybody would respond to this. Instead I got a nice, clean, informational piece that actually answered the question. Thanks.
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 07:55   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

well BT really won't lose that much mobility due to the zeal rule and true marine armies with little to no tanks that i've played against are hard to beat in nature. i've just starting playing BT and my friend plays CF and we both play maybe a total of 3 vehicles which are a predator, dread and a tornado. everything else is infantry. and both so far are hard armies to beat when they are assault based too.
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 08:24   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

i think all marine armys are an awsome idea, i saw a massive ultramarine army- 3 tactical squads, 3 assault squads, 3 scout squads, 3 devestator squads and 3 veteran squads plus a command squad. i don't know how many points it was but it looked awsome. you know i reckon you could make a pretty good horde army out of BT cause you could have lots of squads with 6 initiates and 6 neophytes i would hate to have to face something like that ???
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 23:04   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

my SMs have only a land raider in a 1500pts force, it numbers about sixty models.
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 23:11   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

To be honest, I'm suprised more people don't go all foot troop. Assault squads, tactical squads, scout squads, etc. For any vehicle there is a troop squad that can do the same thing.

With Black Templar it's true you don't have Devastator squads. On the other hand you can have much larger tactical squads. Throwing assualt weapons like meltas and plasmaguns in such squads are less likely to be lost on the slog across the table. Properly equiped assault squads should also make good tank hunting units. With BT it might be more important to make sure you squads can do a bit of everything than other armies but you should still have a good force.

EIDT: BTW, my 1000 point force carries roughly 48 marines.
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 23:16   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

I've done it with my Flesh Tearers to great effect (they're meant to be from a jungle, after all) and if you have enough Scouts thrown in, you've got no real problem with securing objectives. As long as you don't go overboard with your elite stuff, you can field that many models that the enemy just can't kill enough of them to stop you doing whatever you want.

One thing to remember is this though; you're not Necrons. Your army simply isn't as durable or as tough as the Necrons...and while they can just generally plod around in a big mass and keep on coming, you don't have to do that...attacking a mass of 30 Marines is scary, especially if there's another cluster of the same on the other side of the board and a couple of roaming Assault squads going about too, with Scouts causing trouble and sneaking about.

Your Marines aren't Sisters either...you don't have anywhere near as many models as they do (not just because yours cost more, but because a lot of Marine players stuff a lot more upgrades on their Commanders). Your models are much better in close combat, too, though your main role with this many models is to shoot your enemy into the dirt and simply making combat with them an unpleasant option (especially if your Assault troops can jump them).

Still...my favourite thing to do with an infantry army is simply to smirk when you face a mass of anti-tank weapons tightly constructed to blow away vehicles
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Old 17 Aug 2006, 23:38   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

Well. With so many marines on the table, and a lack of mobility
would make such an army a bit difficult.
Personally, I would love to face a BT army as that. Templates from russes,
long range heavy weaponry, good mobility, a lot of mortars and ratlings.
I think you would have a hard time.
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Old 18 Aug 2006, 00:06   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Black Templars Extreme Psychological Warfare

Steel Skeleton,

All-marine armies are some of the nastiest. I happen to run two different ones. I play an Iron Warriors variant, both a Chaos version and a pre-heresy loyalist version, with pure marines (also a pure alpha legion variant; also possible in normal loyalist lists). There are some weaknesses to playing raw marines, but it mostly comes in the form of objective based missions and scenarios where you must be somewhere or have something. And sometimes, this is still perfectly possible with all-marine-forces. It's not always possible, and sometimes hard, but it's not impossible.

Anyhow, in my experience, there's basically two forms that I've used and had work. One, setup to completely just surgically cut the enemy in half with raw, dedicated, relentless firepower. Meaning, tons of Heavy Bolters and plentiful lascannons. Nothing else required other than standard issue bolters. Destroy everything fast, and in the final turns, move a few units onto objectives and quarters. It can be a pain in terrain games, but that's why you have teams that walk with weaponry such as plasma, etc. The other setup, was forgoing all that ranged attack, and instead, focus on simply starting close with lots of power armor, and using bolters, plasma and meltas, with small amounts of ranged backup, but basically infiltrating or walking the entire way, weathering the storm so to speak. Anyhow, all just to say, you can do it.

Now, for you, you want to try this with Black Templar. Well, one thing is for sure. You, as a Black Templar player with pure Marines, will have less shooting options than other Marine chapters. Much less. Your Command Squads are the only ones who can muster more than a standard Troop in terms of ranged firepower, beyond the humble bolter. So while you can make a shooting force with templar, making a pure shooting marine force with Templar, is an uphill battle, and not all that scary.

On the other hand, a pure Templar army based on marines that walk, with special weapons, backed up by ranged weapons in other squads can be scary. Righteous Zeal is how you move. The more you take moral checks, the faster you go. Of course, you need your opponent to pop off your models, so this is going to be dependent upon them. But, that's why you have Neophytes, who make death faster and moral checks more obtainable. Crusader Seals, and Righteous Zeal, push you forward. In the end, just having a bunch of marines arrive is all you need. Though you don't even have to use Neophytes, since you can keep squads at a specific number that will begin moral checks quickly, if you want to kind of be like that.

So you definitely can do the all-marine-approach.

I would however, probably not focus too much on Templar for it. If you did, it would be useful to use Assault Marines, followed by Troops, backed up by shooting Command Squads probably, with a few troops of lascannon support.

So why not right?

Cheers!
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