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Deepstriking termies
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 17:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Deepstriking termies

Ok, a few questions on deepstriking terminator command squads. this is what i was thinking:

2 Terminators with Powerfists and stormbolters
2 Terminators with Assault cannons and Powerfists
Terminator Sergeant with stormbolter and powersword
Master in Termy armour with a powersword and stormbolter
Master of Sanctity in termy armour with arcanum and stormbolter.

First question, should i take 2 assault cannons in such a small squad? or should i go for 1 cannon and a falmer, or just one cannon.

Secondly, should i invest in buying my termy sergeant a powerfist?

Third, would my masters be better off with stormbolters?

Lastly, and most importantly, how far away from the enemy should i place the scatter dice? i dont want to lose the most expensive unit in my army due to a bad scater roll, but i dont want to end up having to chase the enemy squad around for miles. So how far, in inches, should i aim for? Im not sure if i should try to land 12" away to stay out of rapid fire range, or within 12" to assault next turn.
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 18:30   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar
First question, should i take 2 assault cannons in such a small squad? or should i go for 1 cannon and a falmer, or just one cannon.
Your weapons options are really dependent upon the nature and composition of the enemy forces. Never, ever, under any circumstances take a Cyclone missile launcher...obviously Heavy Flamers are much better for engaging infantry at short range (as is the projected deployment of Terminators...they're wasted in a fire support role) and Assault Cannons are better at destroying both infantry and vehicles at medium range (especially when combined with the 'Tank Hunters' special skill and the ability to teleport in behind vehicles). Cyclone Missile launchers may look cool but not even the fact that they come with a 'free' Storm Bolter justifies the price. Generally speaking, Storm Bolters cost 5 points, so even if you discount it that still prices the Cyclone at 20 points; the same price as an Assault Cannon...I know which I'd prefer. The Assault Cannon's fearsome reputation isn't built upon myth; they're utterly evil...in a more civilised universe, I expect their very use in battle would be deemed a war crime. Assault Cannons are the swiss army knife of 40k weapons; they do everything, and to an outstanding standard.

Your alternative, as you mentioned, is the Heavy Flamer. These are potentially devastating weapons in the right circumstances, but should only ever be deployed against armies expected to field considerable numbers of troops. If you have a very specific purpose for your Termie command squad, such as the destruction of infantry units unsupported by armour (eg. artillery/fire support/command units) then these are the tools of destruction for you. Provided your Termies won't be expected to engage vehicles ad hoc as they advance you can be sure Heavy Flamers will be worth their weight in gold. People might tell you the Flamer's range is too limited to bring it to bear with much effect because enemy troops will just withdraw and leave you out of range, but that's just not so. No one runs from Heavy Flamers, it serves no purpose. If you flee, what then? You've saved that unit from destuction for another turn but the enemy has gained more ground with a full strength Terminator squad. People would always prefer to stand and shoot, in the hope they can drop a Terminator or two. Advancing on foot with Heavy Flamers is viable (especially in Cities of Death) but definately not the best option. Assault Cannons or even, dare I say it, Cyclone Missile Launchers are better for that sort of thing, but Termies can teleport into battle putting them up close in short order...often close enough to start burning things straight off the bat. Better yet is deployment from a Land Raider, straight off the ramp and well within range. Assuming you don't kill everything in one fell swoop you can follow this up with an assault to finish off the shell-shocked survivors. >
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 18:48   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

Should I bother taking chainfists? I'm already dishing out 8 str 8 power fist attacks and 8 str 6 rending attacks.
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 18:56   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar
Secondly, should i invest in buying my termy sergeant a powerfist?
Don't buy a Power Fist for your Sergeant, you've already got more than enough kicking about in a Termie Command Squad and 15 points is better spent elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar
Third, would my masters be better off with stormbolters?
I don't really understand what you mean by this...they've already got Storm Bolters.

Are you asking if they'd be better off with a Combi-weapon/another close combat weapon?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar
Lastly, and most importantly, how far away from the enemy should i place the scatter dice? i dont want to lose the most expensive unit in my army due to a bad scater roll, but i dont want to end up having to chase the enemy squad around for miles. So how far, in inches, should i aim for? Im not sure if i should try to land 12" away to stay out of rapid fire range, or within 12" to assault next turn.
Seven inches is not a safe bet in my book. You're most likely to roll a 7 on 2D6 which, depending upon the scatter dice itself, would mean you'd quite likely teleport into base contact with an enemy unit, wasting your expensive Termintors completely. Nine inches is safer, given the all-round-defence deployment of the squad members. Typically I go for the full twelve inches from anything with squad Krull (unless I'm feeling daring) because they carry Assault Cannons and can merrily engage whatever the hell they want the moment they turn up. You can't mount an assault while the Termies are getting their bearings anyway so putting some distance between them and the enemy if at all possible is a good course of action because you'll want to reduce the risk of getting charged by the enemy before you've got a chance to put one in yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar
Should I bother taking chainfists? I'm already dishing out 8 str 8 power fist attacks and 8 str 6 rending attacks.
Chainfists are awesome (and greatly overlooked)! If you decide to take Heavy Flamers take four chainfists with the 20 points you'll save (as opposed to taking Assault Cannons). Even if you take the Assault Cannons, take three of them instead of a Power Fist for the Sergeant. They're 30 points each for other models! Powerfists can only ever score glancing hits against AV14 (and that's at a push) but chainfists will make a mockery of any armour, even more so with a Chaplain in the mix. I think people underestimate Chainfists...perhaps because they're inconspicuous and not dissimilar in appearance to Power Fists, perhaps because they're so cheap for Terminators, I don't know. But your opponent will be real surprised when your three remaining Flamer toting Termies cut the front of his Leman Russ off and turn it's crew to mush. >
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 19:21   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

Actually Tom is partly right... The assault cannon is by far the best of the 3 heavies you can take in a terminator squad, command or not. However to discount the Missile launcher out of hand like that isn't the best thing to do. Yes on average the assault cannon will do more to a tank than the missile launcher, but since when have the law of averages worked in 40k. I've seen too many people relie on the assault cannon too much and not get anything in return for it. I myself played against a space wolf army not more than 2 days ago with my deathwing, and if I hadn't taken missile launchers in at least one unit my opponents venerable dreadnought would have run all over my guys. As it was every shot fired from the assault cannons in my army (and I had 6) failed to do anything to the dreads armor, but the 2 missile launchers were able to keep it from firing for 2 turns, and then finally blew it up.

Again the Assault cannon from sheer weight of numbers should have pulled that thing down, but if you are facing a vehicle with armor 12 or higher and you can't get that magic 6 that you need to rend with then the number of shots don't mean a thing.

Now as for the third option: Heavy flamers, since you are deepstriking your command unit they might be ok to use, but if you find yourself just outside of that 8 inch range (measure the template, its about 8 inches long) then you are either going to find yourself not being able to use it as the enemy will fall back to avoid them, or not being able to use them because the enemy will assault you on their turn. either way unless you can deepstrike them close enough they are a waste of points. But then again I've never liked flamers in 40k.
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 20:34   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
I don't really understand what you mean by this...they've already got Storm Bolters.

Are you asking if they'd be better off with a Combi-weapon/another close combat weapon?
sorry, meant to ask if my masters would be better off with power fists instead of power weapons.
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 20:53   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
I don't really understand what you mean by this...they've already got Storm Bolters.

Are you asking if they'd be better off with a Combi-weapon/another close combat weapon?
sorry, meant to ask if my masters would be better off with power fists instead of power weapons.
Depends really. A Power Fist wielding IC in a power armoured Marine squad adds some substantial punch the the unit (no pun intended), giving it a fighting chance against vehicles and monsterous creatures. But when there's four other Power Fists/Chainfists in the squad then you're probably better off capitalising on that high initiative with a power weapon or lightning claws instead. Termies are fearsome in an assault against pretty much anything, but attacking last often means losing a Termie or two to an unlucky dice roll. With a Chaplain and Commander in the unit swinging power weapons at initiative 5 and re-rolling failed rolls to hit, you can thin out the numbers of an infantry unit so the Termies won't have to soak up quite so much punishment before pulling the survivor's arms off.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 12 Jul 2006, 20:54   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

to put it bluntly, no. you already have enough powerfists in your list for what you need. if anything give your commander a pair of lightning claws and your chaplain a uh... ok give him the power fist. That way the chaplain can choose which of the two to use and the master will get to strike at his own initiative. give the unit furious charge and make sure to assault and you should have 6 str 5 attacks that reroll to hit and reroll to wound at Ini 6. and thats just from the commander. there aren't many things that can live up to that assault...

But unless you are willing to give your commander a power weapon to go with th powerfist you should never give the commander a power fist. and even if you do give him the power fist/weapon combo, for the same price in points you could have given him the twin lightning claws.
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Old 13 Jul 2006, 11:39   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

I disagree, I don't think you should never give a Commander a Power Fist. Only when he's surrounded by Terminators should they be ignored completely. The Commanders high initiative is a pity to waste, but on the other side of that coin, it's a shame to waste all those attacks on simple power weapons too. If you can push out 6 strength 8 attacks at high weapon skill, it might mean the difference between life and death for a unit unquipped to handle tanks and big beasties.

Furthermore, I'm going to have to disagree with you regarding 'Furious charge' too (sorry). If you're taking Flamers then 'Furious charge' is fine, but if you take Assault Cannons then you really want to take 'Tank hunters', especially if you plan to teleport in behind enemy vehicles, where the Assault Cannon's rending ability is irrelevant. All that matters when you've got that one great chance to attack the soft rear armour (of almost every vehicle) is the strengh of the weapon and the number of shots you can fire. Obviously the number of shots fired is covered quite nicely by a couple assault cannons, but if they're firing strength 7 shots rather than strength 6 then it gives them a 267% chance of inflicting a penetrating hit rather than 178%!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 16 Jul 2006, 14:45   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Deepstriking termies

Deepstrike at 3 inches away with infiltrated teleport homer, bike boosted tellyport homer
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