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Tough decision
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 02:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Tough decision

i am kinda new to WH40K, and am unsure of what to purchase next..

I am trying to decide whether it would be more beneficial for me if i bought a Rhino or Predator, the only real 'vehicle i have is a dreadnought, i have two tactical squads, termis, jump jets, scouts, and chaplain, Librarian...and that's all, so ya....

I want my marines to be more effective in battles, but at the same time, i am having a difficult time against such large armies with tanks and trukks and whatnot.
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 02:35   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tough decision

Skip both, If your really worried about going up against larger armies, go for a Land Raider.

Transport
Fire Magnet (but with a FA of 14)
and definiltly has the "dakka" to be effective
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 03:26   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tough decision

What do you play against army wise besides armys with a lot of tanks.
What do you have with your list,any anti armour?

The land raider is all right but it is a fire magnet and will be targeted first with everything they've got.Generaly it is good to take a pred with all lascannons(You know the one with twinlinked lascannon)and extra armour.

Rino is to get your marines in there fast I think it is not worth it unless you have a devastator squad with anti armour weapons,or a squad with that specific target.
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 03:43   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tough decision

I'm going to disagree here.

You want a more effective force? Get another tactical squad!

It's another resilient (in comparison to a vehicle) scoring unit, it can take a heavy and a special weapon, along with a vet serge.

A 10 man squad with Plasma Cannon/Plasma Gun is real fun! Sure the small blast won't always get a lot of hits, but if your opponent is spacing his men apart to avoid the AP2 template, you're ahead of the game, because he's reacting to you.

Get him to react to you and you'll be one step ahead.

Even then, you can get real lucky and vaporize a tonne of guys in one hit!


Tactical squads are the way to go. You seem to have everything else, so another squad of regular joes goes a long way in helping out!

40% troops isn't just a tournament friendly ideal, it's also strikingly effective, given that Space Marines have great troops for relatively cheap! (for what they do).


Cheers,
Lawrence.
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 10:28   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tough decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarhus
A 10 man squad with Plasma Cannon/Plasma Gun is real fun! Sure the small blast won't always get a lot of hits, but if your opponent is spacing his men apart to avoid the AP2 template, you're ahead of the game, because he's reacting to you.
Ahead of the game? How does your opponent spreading his men out give you a particular advantage? Just makes it harder to burn them when you get up close as far as I can tell.

When you've got almost no other armour in your army then a Land Raider's all-round AV14 is going to be valuable because all those AT weapons out there are going to have almost nothing else to shoot at. By the same token, putting your troops in a Rhino is a sure way to get them killed quickly. A Land Raider is a big vehicle which means it can block line of sight to vulnerable units behind it too. Also, Raiders are great for delivering assault oriented troops because they can assault in the same turn they disembark, thinning out the enemy unit with Heavy Bolter fire.

If you choose a Predator then it'll draw just as much fire without the additional armour to protect it, but on the plus side it can have three Lascannons to the Raider's two and costs a half as much as the Raider. You don't necessarily have to give it all Lascannons either, you could give it Heavy Bolters which could be fired on the move and give the vehicle the added flexibility to engage troops too, but at the cost of AT firepower.

Have you considered upgrading your Dreadnought to 'Venerable' and giving him the Tank Hunters skill? With an Assault Cannon and Missile Launcher, he can be a real menace to infantry and tanks alike!
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 11:35   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tough decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarhus
A 10 man squad with Plasma Cannon/Plasma Gun is real fun! Sure the small blast won't always get a lot of hits, but if your opponent is spacing his men apart to avoid the AP2 template, you're ahead of the game, because he's reacting to you.
Ahead of the game? How does your opponent spreading his men out give you a particular advantage? Just makes it harder to burn them when you get up close as far as I can tell.

When you've got almost no other armour in your army then a Land Raider's all-round AV14 is going to be valuable because all those AT weapons out there are going to have almost nothing else to shoot at. By the same token, putting your troops in a Rhino is a sure way to get them killed quickly. A Land Raider is a big vehicle which means it can block line of sight to vulnerable units behind it too. Also, Raiders are great for delivering assault oriented troops because they can assault in the same turn they disembark, thinning out the enemy unit with Heavy Bolter fire.

If you choose a Predator then it'll draw just as much fire without the additional armour to protect it, but on the plus side it can have three Lascannons to the Raider's two and costs a half as much as the Raider. You don't necessarily have to give it all Lascannons either, you could give it Heavy Bolters which could be fired on the move and give the vehicle the added flexibility to engage troops too, but at the cost of AT firepower.

Have you considered upgrading your Dreadnought to 'Venerable' and giving him the Tank Hunters skill? With an Assault Cannon and Missile Launcher, he can be a real menace to infantry and tanks alike!
Tom, I think he means that the enemy has to play to your style, as if he's spread his men out to avoid your plasma cannon, he's fighting on your turf.
I think that's what Aarhus ment.
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 14:08   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tough decision

Well, between those two choices, the rhino or the predator, I would go with the predator. The predator is the better of the two options, because it gives you anti-tank weaponry, which is what you said you were having a problem with.

I would suggest that you take a Dev team however. For starters, your list lacks heavy support, which is probably why vehicles are giving you fits. If transports are all you're worried about, you can probably get away with a set of heavy bolters, but if you need some serious tank busting capabilities then missile launchers are a good way to go. Their high strength lets them damage even the toughest tanks, and they double well for anti-infantry. I would only really suggest the las Dev squad if your opponents are real tread heads and you're expecting a whole bunch of tanks.
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 14:53   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tough decision

I'd take 2 squads of devestators

squad 1
4 bolters
4 missisle launchers

squad 2
4 bolters
4 missle launchers

Also i'd suggest that you get another couple tactical squads. Also get a couple Lascannon marines to put in said tactical squads.

If you want vechiles (which i am not a fan of) i'd suggest trying to get a Landspeeder Tornado.
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 05:56   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tough decision

MalVeauX had an excellent post in this thread about Predators:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=28153.0

My vote is for the Predator, since Rhinos are too much of a deathtrap in 4th Edition. The fact that it will also be the only transport in your army doesn't help either, since everything and their dog will try to take it out, effectively removing one squad for a whole turn.

I'll have to agree with Tom about the LR, though, since he has a good point about the AT weapons. If you're only planning to have one tank in your army, go for the LR.
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Old 10 Jul 2006, 13:55   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tough decision

This is a hard one... really comes down to what you want and your play style.

I'm also not a fan of vehicles, so I'd be looking at adding Devs to your army.

Or perhaps a dreadnought packing some serious weaponary!
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