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Plan for a 1500 pt army list- Critiques...?
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Old 03 Jul 2006, 23:09   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Default Plan for a 1500 pt army list- Critiques...?

Heavy Support:
Predator Annihilator: Total 153 pts
Lascannon Sponsons
Extra Armor
Smoke Launchers

Predator Annihilator: Total 138 pts
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Extra Armor
Smoke Launchers

Whirlwind: Total 85 pts

Troops:
9x marines w/bolters* * Total: 218 pts
1x marine w/plasma gun
Rhino Transport
-Extra Armor
-Smoke Launchers

second troop choice same as above* Total: 218 pts

Fast Attack:* * * Total: 195 pts
Land speeder Squadron(?)
-Standard Pattern x2
-Tornado Pattern w/MultiMelta

Elites:
Dreadnought* * * Total: 135 pts
-Venerable
-Tank Hunters/Furious Assault (which one...?)

HQ:* * * * Total: 340 pts
Force Commander(Master)
-Storm Bolter
-Power Sword
-Terminator Armour
1x Terminator w/Assault Cannon
4x Terminators

* Total: 1482 pts

What should I do with the 18 pts left over...? And should I have each one of my land speeders as a separate fast attack choice...?* All comments are welcome.

Edit: Note that my opponets are Tau, Eldar, and Chaos


*
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Old 03 Jul 2006, 23:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Plan for a 1500 pt army list- Critiques...?

Hey,

Lets go over the list:

[HQ 1] - Commander & Terminators - Looks good. Only (slight) problem is that the single Assault Cannon is looking rather lost - spend your last remaining points on a second one there.

[Elites 1] - Dreadnaught - Again, looks alright - kept nice and (relatively) cheap for a Venerable dreadnaught. As for which Veteran skill to go for, it depends what you want to do most. Neither are overwhelmingly effective with the current dreadnaught setup, so you may want to just take neither.

[Troops 1] - Tactical Squads - Big squads with transports, but no close combat power at all. Nothing in there to deal with the close combat monsters that Chaos can spawn, and Eldar Wraithlords are going to have a field day. Personally I would cut the squads down to 8 men each, and buy a Veteran Sarge with Power Fist.

[Fast Attack 1] - Landspeeders - All three speeders should ideally be split into seperate squadrons. More scoring units, plus they don't have to stay in coherency, plus if one breaks down, it doesn't slow up the others. However, I'm not quite understanding what the weapon arrangements are for these - would you care to make them clearer? From what I can gather, you have two standard Heavy Bolter speeders, and a Tornado (Heavy bolter + Assault Cannon) with multi-melta - the latter is not a legal choice. In any case, landspeeders are great.

[Heavy Support 1] - Predator w/ lascannon sponsons - Las / las predators are tend to freak opponents out in my experience, who often divert considerable resources towards ensuring that they are incapacitated. This vehicle may not last too long against the likes of Tau or Eldar (or Chaos). It also sacrifices mobility for firepower - with 3 main weapons, you can only fire 1 on the move. Personally, I prefer putting most of my anti-tank weaponry into infantry squads, rather than on vehicles.

[Heavy Support 2] - Predator w/ heavy bolter sponsons - A great vehicle and weapons configuration, one that I use most of the time. Just the right amount of anti-infantry and anti-armour, and is not perceived as too great a threat - so expect it to last longer. Is also pretty mobile; can fire all three weapons on the go.

[Heavy Support 3] - Whirlwind - Should help to thin down those pesky Fire Warrior and Guardian squads.


Overall - The list is very tank heavy, and infantry light. Space Marine vehicles do not have the same staying power that Space Marine infantry has, so will be more challenging to use, especially if your opponent keeps lots of high strength weaponry up his sleeves, such as Tau. The unit composition is generally fine; however I would be enclined to drop a couple of vehicles, and hire a couple of Tactical Squad, just for that extra solid bit of support.

Cheers.
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Old 04 Jul 2006, 00:44   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Plan for a 1500 pt army list- Critiques...?

I had the same thought about my HQ, but with only 18 points to works with I can't get another... (assault cannons are 20 points!)* But about my Las/las predator, the only reason I take that is because my Tau, and Chaos opponents seem to have a real fixation with Armor, so I thought why not bring some offense power to accompany this Pred.* With its smoke launchers, I can roll up at 12' finding a good vantage point with which to shoot from, and then fire all 3 Las shots if the enemy tanks show themselves.* Also, I can have both of preds if need be, concentrate on the same tank; 4 lascannon shots is definitely going to screw up your tank badly, if not destroy it.

Sorry about that typo I guess on my Landspeeder tornado. It has a Multi Melta, and an Assault cannon. I thought u would knew bc I said tornado pattern, meaning that it has to have an assault cannon, and then I said w/multimelta, but whatever now that that is cleared up...

But I hadn't thought of that close combat aspect of my two tactical squads... In fact i've completely overlooked that.* Probably because, to be more specific, my opponents are extreme shooty tau, Iron Warriors (keeps his distance...), and an Eldar opponent who's army is rather small, and not finished so I don't know what to expect from him yet... although he has a fire prism and some Dark reapers, 2 semi-big squads of guardians, an the Avatar for an HQ.* But sadly the Avatar almost always gets gunned down by someone in our games, and has never been a problem to me.

I don't know if I'd be willing to drop 2 marines for a vet sarge with a power fist.* Because then I'd have to get in close combat with him to use the power fist, denying 7 or more bolters which would probably have better results than close combat. I don't know... I'm going for a medium to close ranged firefighting army.

*Although I should note that I don't have all that stuff on that list, and in my last say... 5 or 6 games, I have used a 10 man assault squad w/flamer and a powerfist sarge

Edit:* I forgot to note on your advice on my Dreadnought, but it sounds like good advice. By not taking tank hunters or furious charge at all, I save myself 10 pts (for that second assault cannon) and my dread still remains pretty frighting.* Being able to be a close combat monster, or gun down some light-medium armored veichles, and being venerable makes it a little bit eaiser to stay alive.
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Old 04 Jul 2006, 10:40   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Plan for a 1500 pt army list- Critiques...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
But about my Las/las predator, the only reason I take that is because my Tau, and Chaos opponents seem to have a real fixation with Armor, so I thought why not bring some offense power to accompany this Pred. With its smoke launchers, I can roll up at 12' finding a good vantage point with which to shoot from, and then fire all 3 Las shots if the enemy tanks show themselves. Also, I can have both of preds if need be, concentrate on the same tank; 4 lascannon shots is definitely going to screw up your tank badly, if not destroy it.
Only real problem I can think of is if your Iron Warriors opponent is a bit lascannon mad, and if your Tau opponent is a bit Railgun mad, this predator may not see alot of action. However, as you say, there isn't much that won't be damaged by 3 lascannons. Keep the thing in cover if you can, and hopefully it'll be overlooked in favor of the Rhinos or Dreadnaught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Sorry about that typo I guess on my Landspeeder tornado. It has a Multi Melta, and an Assault cannon. I thought u would knew bc I said tornado pattern, meaning that it has to have an assault cannon, and then I said w/multimelta, but whatever now that that is cleared up...
Was just making sure before I jumped to conclusions, but this isn't a possible combination. The Tornado pattern landspeeder either has a heavy bolter and assault cannon, or a multi-melta and heavy flamer. There is no option for a multi-melta with an assault cannon. I'd keep those two standard speeders, and take another with just a multi-melta. This should give you another 30 points to mess around with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
I don't know if I'd be willing to drop 2 marines for a vet sarge with a power fist. Because then I'd have to get in close combat with him to use the power fist, denying 7 or more bolters which would probably have better results than close combat. I don't know... I'm going for a medium to close ranged firefighting army.
I figured you were going for close range firefighting with these squads (that's the way I like playing them myself). I was just thinking of the power fist in a more defensive role. If you're charged by a wraithlord, avatar or daemon prince, it's nice to know that you have something there that will help get rid of them. Also - if you don't mind which traits you use, you may want to consider going for "Cleanse and Purify", and takin another plasma gun in each of those squads to use up the 30 points saved above. You may also want to swap out the plasma guns for meltaguns in one of the squads, so that you have some nice close-range tank busting weaponry as well.

Let us know how it works out.
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Old 04 Jul 2006, 17:46   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Plan for a 1500 pt army list- Critiques...?

It is true that this list is a bit well... tank heavy, and space marine tanks are just pretty much average. They can get the job done, but chances are there are probably other tanks in other armies that do it better... :-\ But what if I dropped that Pred with the lascannon sponsons in favor of a Devastator squad with lascannons...? 3 or 4 lascannons could be just as powerful, if not more. the only problems is that a Devastator squad isn't as mobile as a tank would be, and they well be more expensive than a tank would be. But one unlucky shot wouldn't be able to take them out.

Also, should I reconsider the size of my tactical squads...? What if I did the cheap heavy weapons team that seems to be so popular.
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Old 04 Jul 2006, 19:08   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Plan for a 1500 pt army list- Critiques...?

Our tanks are great in a support role; supporting the bulk of infantry in doing their job. Infantry are simply more reliable - you can easily gauge the amount of damage that a Tactical Squad can take before it is useless, but you can't do it so easily with tanks. Infantry are either alive or dead. Tanks can take more variety of damage which is essentially random. The same hits may destroy a tank in one game, or just keep it from shooting in another game. The fact that they can be prevented from shooting, or immobilised, or outright destroyed on a single hit makes them rather unreliable - you simply can't rely on them to always be able to do their job.

That Predator Annihilator is the cheapest way you can pack 3 lascannons in. However, how about going for something like this:
[hr]

[size=8pt]HQ 1 - 360 points
- Master w/ Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Terminator Armour
- 5 Terminators w/ 2 Assault Cannons

Elites 1 - 105 points
- Dreadnaught w/ Assault Cannon, CCW

Elites 2 - 123 points
- 6 Veteran Space Marines w/ Tank Hunters
- Lascannon

Troops 1 & 2 - 436 points
- 7 Space Marines w/ Plasma Gun
- Veteran Sergeant w/ Power Fist
- Rhino w/ Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers
- (x2)

Fast Attack 1 - 50 points
- Landspeeder w/ Heavy bolter

Fast Attack 2 - 65 points
- Landspeeder w/ Multi-melta

Heavy Support 1 & 2 - 276 points
- Predator Annihilator w/ Heavy Bolter sponsons
- Extra armour, Smoke launchers
- (x2)

Heavy Support 3 - 85 points
- Whirlwind[/size]

[hr]
This splits up your anti-tank a little bit by sacrificing a landspeeder, and the dreadnaughts venerable status. A 6-man Veteran squad with tank hunters and a lascannon is very resilient, and gives you an effectively-S10 lascannon shot against vehicles. You still have some mobile tank-busting weaponry with 2 predators and a multi-melta landspeeder. The Dreadnaught and Terminators Assault cannons can also be used if needbe. The 'speeder can deep strike, to get a shot at some papery rear armour.

Depending on your opponent, you could swap some stuff out - Power fists probably won't be needed as much against Tau, or shooty Iron warriors (unless they have a daemon prince). If you need more anti-tank, you could replace one of the predators with a destructor - autocannon turret and lascannon sponsons. That gives you 2 lascannons, and 2 S7 shots for a reasonable cost. The sizes of your tactical squads are fine - I wouldn't go below 8 men for a close-range squad. Only reduce their numbers if you can buy something similarly effective with what you save.

What do you think?
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