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New to Marines
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Old 01 Jul 2006, 08:14   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Default New to Marines

Hey guys I am completely new to marines and I am only just beginning to understand how they work and perform on the table-top. I am going to create a chapter called the Black Hawks, so i've grabbed myself the codex and made a list. Im planning on having a tough, elite army not just a generic army with squads of marines and the odd tank. Anywasy here it is, C&C welcome:
750pts Black Hawks
HQ
Reclusiarch-105
-Artificer Armour

Elites
4xAssault Terminators-180
-Sacred Standard

Dreadnought-105
-extra Armour

Venerable Dreadnought-150
-extra Armour
-Lascannon

TROOPS
5xScouts-105
-4xSnipers
-1xmissle Launcher
-Teleport Homer

5xScouts-100
-4xSnipers
-1xmissle Launcher

Will this army be to outnumbered and get itself picked off easily?? And I was wondering wether or not I should take a pred instead of that Venerable Dread??
Thnx in advance, chev
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Old 01 Jul 2006, 09:42   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New to Marines

well it seems to be dripping with cheese, but:

Give the Reclusiarch terminator armour, and join him up with your assault terminators, it'll do them a world of good.
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Old 01 Jul 2006, 10:17   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New to Marines

its that cheesy?
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Old 01 Jul 2006, 10:52   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New to Marines

well you've got two minimum squads of the cheapest unit as your compulsary troops, and then all 3 elites choices filled with the most expensive units you could fit in, so yeah.
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Old 01 Jul 2006, 11:43   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: New to Marines

Hey man,

Very glad to see you are joining the Emperor's finest. However I'm sorry to tell you that many of the units in this list are illegal / wrong points cost. Lets look over the mistakes:

[Elites 1] - Terminators - This squad is one Terminator short of the minimum unit size. Also, if you look at the wargear section in your codex, it says that the Sacred Standard is for standard bearers only - you can only get these guys in Command Squads.

[Troops 1] - Scouts - You cannot have a Teleport Homer without upgrading your Sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant - only he has access to the armoury.

[Troops 2] - Scouts - You're a couple of points over here; recheck your weapon costs.


Overall however, the list is very fragile, and really doesn't stand a chance against most armies. I assume that you want to deploy your scouts first, and then have everything else deep striking around them? Unfortunately that tactic doesn't work on its own. 10 scouts will not survive the punishment dished out by most armies in the first turn or two. When your Assault Terminators and Dreadnaughts deep strike, there will be absolutely nothing to support them, and you will just be picked apart piece by piece.

In your list, you basically have 10 Scouts, (5) Terminators, 2 Dreadnaughts and a Chaplain. The scouts are weak on their own, without Tactical Squad support, and aren't likely to survive many turns of shooting or a single turn of close combat. The Chaplain is totally on his own - as Elessar says, Chaplains are much more effective when grouped with another unit. The Assault Terminators are going to be very vulnerable on the turn they deep strike, and are very slow moving. You will have alot of trouble actually getting them into close combat. Mobile armies, such as Mech Tau, will just run rings around you. The best way to deliver Assault Terminator is with a Land Raider Crusader - and they simply aren't worth it in small games such as this. The Assault Cannon dreadnaught is probably the best thing in the list, however the Venerable dreadnaught is very expensive for what he does. Again though, dreadnaughts armour is papery thin - any hammerhead's weaponry from the rear, lascannons or mass autocannons / missile pods will just knock them flat, whether Venerable or not.

Its difficult to come up with a "tough, elite" list at 750 points that actually works. I'll give you some ideas though.

[size=8pt]HQ

Reclusiarch - 110
- Terminator Armour

Terminator Command Squad - 180
- 4 Terminators
- Assault Cannon

Elites

Dreadnaught - 105
- Assault Cannon + CCW

Troops

Tactical Squad - 105
- 6 Space Marines
- Lascannon

Tactical Squad - 105
- 6 Space Marines
- Lascannon

Scout Squad - 93
- 5 Scouts w/ Bolters / Bolt pistols + CCW / Shotguns
- Missile Launcher
- Veteran Sergeant
- Teleport Homer

Fast Attack

Landspeeder - 50
- Heavy Bolter[/size]


Total Points: 748


This list is an improvement on the previous, but still has a few flaws - unfortunately there's not much you can do about them if you want the "tough + elite" theme. As you can see, you have 17 marines on the table from the beginning, and those Tactical Squads will last much longer than two lonely 5-man scout squads, and offer a hefty bit of tank-busting firepower when needed. A scout squad is still there complete with teleport homer for the Terminators to utilise. The chaplain is accompanied by his faithful Terminator Command squad, which do a nice close range shooting job with an assault cannon. However, this squad is still fairly expensive, so it's really up to what your opponents are like to determine how well they will perform. I've also included that dreadnaught for some close fire support, and a landspeeder for some fast, cheap dakka. You can deep strike the speeder or field it from the start, depending on how you want to play it. Don't expect it to last long at close range however.

Let us know what you think.
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