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Need help-in first Tourny
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Old 05 Jun 2006, 21:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Need help-in first Tourny

Thats right. After two years or so, I'm entering my first tournament. But the problem is that it is city fight (using new Cities of Death), and I have never even played in a city. I have some ideas, but want some better input. They are having an orientation for people to learn the new rules, but other than that and maybe right before the tourny I'm not goign to have access to a Cities of Death book (out of money till then). Tournaments this saturday.

And about the army list. It's 1,000 points, and I've got the following to use;

5-man Assault Squad (aren't built (yet), so I can take any suggestions)
5-man Terminator Assault Squad (3 w/ Lightning Claws and 2 w/ Thunder Hammers)
36 Bolter Armed Space Marines
1 Plasma Gun armed Space Marine
1 Meltagun armed Space Marine
1 Missile Launcher armed Space Marine
1 Heavy Bolter armed Space Marine
1 Rhino
1 Whirlwind
1 Landraider
1 Dreadnought (can use any config)
1 Master Commander (Storm Bolter)
Tech Marine (servo-Harness) and any mix of servitors (servitors aren't built yet)
1 Predator (isn't built, so can be destructor or predator)

Its all over 1,000 points, but I don't know exactly what to take. I was thinking at least 28 marines in 4tactical squads (7 per squad), the Assault Squad, the Master and the Whirlwind. But I'm not sure what other stuff I should use, and whether I should try a mixed force or all shooting (my army can not do full close combat). Any input will be apreciated, as I need some advice. Thanks!

UPDATE: Here is the list I have made;

Deltaguard Tournament List
Limit:1,000
Used: 997

Traits: See but Donít be Seen, We Stand Alone

HQ:80

Master:80
Storm Bolter

Elites:105

Dreadnought:105

Troops:567

Tactical Squad:136
Sgt and 5 Marines-Bolters
Marine-Plasma Gun
Infiltrate and Acute Senses

Tactical Squad:136
Sgt and 5 Marines-Bolters
Marine-Meltagun
Infiltrate and Acute Senses

Tactical Squad:136
Sgt and 5 Marines-Bolters
Marine-Missile Launcher
Infiltrate and Acute Senses

Tactical Squad:131
Sgt and 5 Marines-Bolters
Marine-Heavy Bolter
Infiltrate and Acute Senses

Fast Attack:160

Assault Marine Squad:160
Vet Sgt-Plasma Pistol and Power Fist
2 Assault Marines: Bolt Pistols and CCWs
2 Assault Marines: Plasma Pistols and CCWs

Heavy Support:85

Whirlwind:85

P.S., Tommorrow I have to start building stuff, so my flexibility will change over the course of this week, as I have to be done everything I'm using by Saturday.
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Old 05 Jun 2006, 22:27   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

I've not played a city either, but I have done a lot of jungle fighting. From such close quarter, restrictive play I have come to learn that a Marine and his bolter is your friend..him and his three dozen mates even more so. I recommend you forgoe heavily armoured troops such as Terminators and aim to get more men on the battlefield with those points. Termies are great, don't get me wrong, but I imagine that in such close quarters combat with area terrain all over the place, their Tactical Dreadnought armour becomes largely redundant and they just can't bring the same massed firepower to bear as their equal points worth of power armoured marines. That said, I think I might go a step further and field scouts in place of full battle brothers; their armour is not such a huge advantage when there's cover everywhere.

Obviously you'll need to field some armour (I think every army needs some armour, if only to spice up the game) but I'd say that the nature of the battlefield precludes the use of a Land Raider completely...not only would it's movement be highly restricted, it's primary role of moving troops to the front through heavy fire would be redundant; troops can move through the ruins. For a Cities of Death game I think you should definately take at least one Dreadnought. With the wrecker stratagem (borrow someone's COD rulebook) you can use them to simply knock down any buildings sheltering dug-in troops! Also, unlike tanks, you needn't worry about troops assaulting the rear armour facing of a walker.

You'll be facing a lot cover as already mentioned so I recommend taking as many flamers as possible. Land Speeders with multi-meltas and flamers may serve you well both as lightning fast tank hunters, able to get in close safely (using the buildings as cover but ignoring the inherant movement restrictions) and to burn out entrenched snipers. Taking a siege
Dreadnought is also a good idea, that inferno cannon may prove invaluable and the heavy flamer that comes as standard is always useful.

I reckon assault troops may come in handy too (give 'em flamers). They tend to get wiped out before they can do anything useful on open battlefields but a built up (or overgrown) area may well be their ideal hunting ground. Of course, there is a danger of self-inflicted casualties when trying to jump from ruin to ruin; 350 lbs of assault marine hitting a brittle, rickety 3rd floor ledge at 20 mph is likely to result in a violent relocation to the basement.
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Old 05 Jun 2006, 23:54   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

Have you finished building your commander? Because, if so, I am at a loss about why you didn't dive him a power weapon or even a chainsword!!!!! A CCW cost 1 pt, and you can have a 2h weapon (your bolter) and a 1h ( the power wep or ccw). Try to drop something in for that. Also, if would EXTREMELY recomend getting the commander a jump pack, an easy way to do this would be to get a vet jump sargent blister and use that ( if affordable). Drop the whirlwind (I dont think it will be effective in city fight, and add on some more marines with leftover points. Just my 1/50th of a dollar.
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Old 06 Jun 2006, 07:47   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

Aren't tournaments great?!
Anyway, I have a few suggestions to beef-up your list in a few weak areas to get you ready for urban warfare:

-Your commander is decent and simple but lacking a simple ccw to benefit from an additional attack in cc. I imagine that he's already built but never despair for I have a solution that will come in later if you are willing to change HQ options.

-Your Dreadnaught might do better with a ccw and a heavy flamer seeing as you'll be in an urban area. That flamer will ignore that constant +4 cover save and fry ALL the models grouping behind rubble trying to benefit from cover. Think about this one. You'll be in cc for most of the game.

-Your tactical squads are multipurpose and semi-solid so leave them be. Just remember that they will be really hit-and-miss and will see combat in most situations. Taking out the heavy weapons and giving the squads more men and frag grenades will increase your chances for survival in the trenches.

-Your assult squad is way too small and expensive to earn back its points. It will be gunned down in a single turn. I highly, highly recommend that you use those 160 points for later.

-The whirlwind is an interesting choice but in city fight won't help as much with everyone in cover. It will probably always be out of LOS though which will be awesome for you though. This is a personal option so it's up to you and I kind of like the idea of some extra havoc. Why not?

-OK, so removing the assult squad and the Commander leaves you with 240 pts left to bulk-up on. I'd highly recommend investing in a techmarine, granting him an additional wound for +15 pts and selecting the Scions of Mars trait to use him as your HQ choice (which looked kinda like an inefficient filler before). Give him either the full servo harness for cc action or keep him cheap for fire support. If you take the later option, he'll cost you 80 pts and you'll have 160 left to spend on his servitor squad. Here are two examples of what you can do for this HQ:

CC HQ________________________________________________ ____________
Techmarine with extra wound; command status; full servo harness
4 Combat servitors
215 pts (25 pts left over for goodies)

or

Ranged HQ________________________________________________ _________
Techmarine with extra wound; command status
4 Gun servitors with Heavy Bolters (personal choice)
180 pts (60 pts left over for goodies)

-In the later case, those 60 pts could be used to add extra men to your tactical squads or grant your Ranged HQ access to bigger and better weapons as well as a full servo harness. Just remember to give your Techmarine and his servitors infiltrating to get them close to the enemy and deployed in cover. They will butcher your opponents with so many wounds and attacks (unlike your bolter commander). Any free points should go to infiltration or frag grenades.

Good luck man, now go kick some xeno ass!
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Old 06 Jun 2006, 20:28   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

I like the Techmarine idea, but I don't really have a cool enough model for it ( ), and I like the bonus in Morale that the commander provides. I can add on a power weapon though, so I think I will do that to give him some CC ability. I also agree with Frogger on the Assault Squad choice.

I think I'm going to give the Tact Squads frags and switch out the two heavy weapons for two flamers for some anti-cover saves. I'm gonna keep the whirlwind, as I find that against Orks and Tyranids no matter how much you scatter you'll probably hit something, and I want some artillary support against mass numbers of troops or perhaps any crisis suits that are bugging me. But with all this said, I lack any real anti-tank and only have the Dread's Assault Cannon and the Melta. I might change one of the Tactical Squads into a Veteran Squad with Tank Hunters to give my bolters some extra ounch against vehicles, and give them a Melta and maybe some Krak Grenades. What do you think?
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 04:09   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

Now that sounds like an idea. I like your idea better than messing with a techmarine in the first place(no offense). I might take the assault squad with flamers and no jump packs, after all that is why the option was put there. If you really want them to be a rapid response team then leave them with jump packs on and if you want them to be character killers then leave the plasma on and ignore the flamers. I don't know what a siege dread is but if he has an immolater cannon and a heavy flamer then he is my new favorite cityfight guy! If you have more melta guns then take them instead of your heavy weapons, that way you've got diverse AT support that will make its points back. As a 10 point upgrade that kills anything ?? Takeing a vet squad with tank hunters is a good idea if you don't want to or can't take any of our other advice, actually thats a very good idea. LRC would be great but you don't have one and it would be more than 25% of your army anyway. And you really do need something else on your commander. Otherwise give him some CC equpment and put him by your whirlwind. Anything with a template, particularly a pie plate, is your friend at this point and so it may be worth investing in a new model to replace that plasma gun with a plasma cannon. IDK, I might actually argue for the missile launcher staying in the list. It really gives some versatility and if you take it in your vet squad then it would really pack a mean punch. Str 9 vs ap rolls is a good thing. Post the final list for us? Thnx and good luck


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Old 07 Jun 2006, 07:11   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

I agree with that though I'd recommend taking out at least the Whirlwind if going for the Land Raider, that thing's expensive. With the LR as a transport vehicle you can take the jump packs off the assult squad, give them melta-guns or melta bombs and then drive them up to the enemy and kill all his tanks head on with the melta assult squad. Just make sure your assult squad has at least 8 men (easy as you can just use regular marine models). With so much anti-tank you can gear your tactical squads back to anti-infantry by adding more bolters and a heavy bolter.
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Old 07 Jun 2006, 15:10   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

I would absolutly, posotively, pimp smack somebody if they took a standard LR(unless of course it worked, then I would bow down to you ;D) in this confined quarters :P. LRC are almost made for this kind of thing. Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Multi-Melta, enough said. That's on top of the fact that it can carry 15 space marines or 8 termies. Much better than 10 and 5. Plus, you can shave off some points from frag grenades becuase of the assault frag launchers. As long as you can assault into cover the turn you disembark, you count have having frag grenades . All in all, the LRC is probably my favorite, most expesive, but favortie tank in the game. Its very good at what it does(get up close and stay up close). JMO

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Old 07 Jun 2006, 16:48   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

More expensive though so the points you'd make back from the frags are negated. My favourite LR varient is the Prometheus. Being a command vehicle it's got improved comms which helps get your reserves on the table...and the firepower...four twin-linked heavy bolters will merrily chew through almost any infantry squad you put in front of them in on fell swoop. Useless against tanks though. I wouldn't take any LR varient into a city fight; the buildings can be as close together as 2"! True enough, it's a rolling bunker with the firepower to match but I think your opponent might make best use of the terrain to go where your Land Raider can't.

Have you considered flyers? A Vulture (and a Damocles) would cost you about the same as a Land Raider and would be able to put a cluster of Strength 10 pie plates wherever you need them most (assuming you're using the Taros campaign 'Death from the skies' rules). Line of sight to and from fliers cannot be blocked so nothing is safe. With both forces packing short-ranged weaponry you'll probably find it's safe from most ground fire on it's attack run. You could even fit it with incendiary bombs to ignore cover saves! This would make an excellant and very interesting rapid response unit. I use mine to destroy enemy armour first and then provide close air support to individual squads on the ground by either blowing up or pinning threatening enemy infantry units. If you fit it with hunter-killer missiles instead of bomb racks you can fire as many of them as you want in one turn (at the same target)! If that doesn't handle the enemy armour then you must be facing a titan!
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 08 Jun 2006, 01:26   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Need help-in first Tourny

I don't know if I could use flyer in the tournament, and I don't have the resources to get a model or the rules for one either. I'll have the list posted tommorrow morning, as I don't have enough time tonight to do it. I'll say some brief changes though;

1)I added a Command Squad that was like the veteran squad, gave it 2 meltas, kraks, and the Sgt has a Power Weapon. I gave the squad Tank Hunters and am going to use the Sewer Rats Strategem so that this squad can get into position easily.

2)Gave the commander a powerfist for some extra CC punch in the command squad, and gave him meltas to boost the Krak attacks.

3)Took out a tactical squad.

4)Took out the missile launcher and heavy bolter in favor of 2 flamers, and added 2 guys in these two squads. Left the plasma gun squad the same. Gave them frags. Took off acute senses, though i may adjust to put this back in, as it helps.

The command squad gives me a squad that can preform like a tactical squad, hold objectives and the like, but to also act as a good tank hunter. I don't expect to run up against many more tanks, so I'm hoping the Plasma Gun and the Assault Cannon can fill in against lighter vehicles. Any other suggestions? I would like some ideas on cheap tank hunting, and how to defeat swarms, as I plan on getting outnumbered. I wish I had a scout squad to use, but that is beyond me right now. Remember that I can only work with the list above, and can't get anything else in time before this saturday. I'm modfying my list now, so I'll have it up tommorrow morning. Thanks!

P.S. I plan to use the Infiltrators and Sewer Rats Strategem (for obvious reasons)
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