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[SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]
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Old 29 May 2006, 11:48   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

NOTICE: CURRENT LIST (1.1) UNDER DISCUSSION IS IN THIS POST


HQ

Epistolary Librarian
Force Weapon, Psy-Hood, Bolt Pistol, Frags
Fury of the Ancients, Fear of Darkness

Command squad (7)
6 Marines, Bolters, 2 Plasmaguns
1 Vet. Sgt, Bolt Pistol, Powerfist
# Drop Pod

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10)
9 Marines, Bolters, 2 Meltaguns
1 Vet. Sgt, Bolt Pistol, Powerfist
# Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (10)
9 Marines, Bolters, 2 Meltaguns
1 Vet. Sgt, Bolt Pistol, Powerfist
# Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (10)
9 Marines, Bolters, 2 Meltaguns
1 Vet. Sgt, Bolt Pistol, Powerfist
# Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (8.)
7 Marines, Bolters, 2 Plasmaguns
1 Vet. Sgt, Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon
# Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (6)
5 Marines, Bolters, 2 Plasmaguns
1 Sergeant, Bolt Pistol, CCW
# Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (6)
5 Marines, Bolters, 2 Plasmaguns
1 Sergeant, Bolt Pistol, CCW
# Drop Pod

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastator Squad (8.)
7 Marines, Bolters, CCWs
1 Vet. Sgt, Bolter, Powerfist
# Drop Pod, True-Grit, Counter-attack

Devastator Squad (8.)
7 Marines, Bolters, CCWs
1 Vet. Sgt, Bolter, Powerfist
# Drop Pod, True-Grit, Counter-attack


Traits:
Cleanse and Purify
Trust your battle-Brothers
We Stand Alone

Total: 1849
Models: 74 + 9
Wounds: 76
__________________
4th Ed Win/Loss ratio
Win: 305
Draw: 71
Loss: 112
Total: 488 games

Though I walk through the Valley of Shadow and Death, I fear no evil.
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Old 29 May 2006, 12:20   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

How about some heavy weapons in your dev squads?

I'd be tempted to have assault squads in there too.
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Old 29 May 2006, 13:53   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

The man's in love with bolters. Against orks and Guard who can blame him? Bolters kick ass. Devastators with heavy weapons are expensive...but still, the ability to drop pod four tank-killer cannons into just the right spot can be a real thorn in your enemies side. I see where you're coming from with all the plasma/melta guns kicking about...with drop pods everywhere, it'll be hard for your opponent to turn away that vulnerable rear armour facing but you should be aware that the space Marine codex only allows one special weapon per Tac squad. I'm assuming you've picked the 'Cleanse and Purify' trait for this? To be honest, I think you should bin the extra melta/plasma guns and actually take the lascannons you swapped out in the first place. When your drop pods land you will most likely have to take care of some nearby infantry unit before they can cause any damage anyway so you might as well have a lascannon to hand to engage enemy armour after that (plus, the drop pod might scatter beyond that crucial 12" range forcing you to engage in the following turn anyway). The extra range provided by lascannons all over the place should provided an excellant 'grid' of crisscrossing lines of AT fire...no armour will be safe.

I love this army list. When GW eventually release drop pods at a half reasonable price (when's that due to happen by the way?) I'm doing this too. Might be tricky fighting 'nids though...you could get overwhelmed very quickly. Have you thought about marines of the Deathwatch with Kraken ammunition and heavy bolters? I can see you love bolters and these boys will give you the added punch to bring down aspect warriors and the like. Very expensive though.
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Old 29 May 2006, 15:34   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

I've put together a similar list using apothecaries instead of vet sarges instead of vet sarges and in one squad melta w/vet sarge instaed of plasma. I have played them now three or four times. These lists can be devastating but I'm also not too fond of your dev squads. I would rather see assault squads or landspeeders in their place. I tried terminator squads as well but for the price prefer the assault or speeder squads or a mix of the two. The list should perform well.
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Old 29 May 2006, 17:50   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

It's a shame you didn't post this Medusa army on the Medusa Forum, it could have used some attention. ;D

But lets get down to the business at hand shall we? First, you forgot to mention what traits you would be using. Cleanse and Purify was one of the choices obviously, but you could take a second trait for almost no cost. With this being a drop pod army, I think you might find use for Never Despair. If you are in a good position on the last turn, you might be able to bump up a normal victory to a victorious slaughter. If not, then you don't have to play the extra turn. And the trait is point free to boot, what's not to love?

Quote:
Epistolary Librarian
Force Weapon, Psy-Hood, Familiar, Bolt Pistol, Frags
Fury of the Ancients, Fear of Darkness

Command squad (7)
6 Marines, Bolters, 2 Plasmaguns
1 Vet. Sgt, Bolt Pistol, Powerfist
# Drop Pod
A solid choice. The familiar might be a bit much, because I6 is overkill on most things, but if you have the spare points, you might as well use them there. This is also the only unit I'd have both plasmaguns and a powerfist, because this unit doesn't want to pick CC fights, but odds are your opponents will.

As for your troops, I would probably put the fists with the meltaguns, and leave the plasma guns with normal sergeants. The meltaguns are assault weapons, so after they take a shot or two at nearby armor, they'll be able to charge into combat. In the mean time the 6 man strong plasmagun troops will probably try to stay out of CC in favor of shooting. I would probably also only use two meltagun squads and 4 plasmagun squads, which I will explain shortly.

The real sticking point of the army is the dev squads. Yes the Holy Bolter is nice, and it's always good to have numbers in a drop pod army, but the question is; are bolters tactically flexible enough for it to be worth spending 450 points on just bolter armed marines. They would to well against hoard armies sure, but each bolter round only has a .03% chance of wounding a 'nid Godzilla. The only way they could wound a tank is the back armor, and even then only glancing, and if they get stuck in combat with any CC unit, they're dead.

So what I'd suggest doing is trading out the dev squads for this:

Vet. Squad (8)
8 Marines, Bolt pistols and CC weapons, Furious Charge, 1 Powerfist, 1 Meltagun
# Drop Pod

Vet. Squad (8)
8 Marines, Bolt pistols and CC weapons, Furious Charge, 1 Powerfist, 1 Meltagun
# Drop Pod

Vet. Squad (6)
6 Marines, Bolt pistols and CC weapons, Furious Charge, 1 Powerfist, 1 Meltagun
# Drop Pod

These vet Squads would be able to give you some nasty CC punch, can help out on the turn they land by shooting at tanks. They are a far more diverse selection than the dev squads, because the increased weaponry they can help out with hard to kill troops, and with a high number of attacks in assault they can help against hoards.

In order to pay for them, you'd have to drop a grand total of 8 men worth of Marines or gear, but they are far more flexable than the dev squads, and when you only have three or four turns to play the increased damage these guys can do shouldn't be overlooked.
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Old 29 May 2006, 19:26   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

@darthgus:
Having heavy weapons in devastators is expensive, and they can't even shoot the turn they arrive. They would be quite valiable in normal squads if I would need to have some long range support, maybe.

Assault squads are good, but cannot deep strike in every mission, which means they are out as they are then the only target for the enemy eg. victory points. But I can see some kind of assaulty squads integrated in to this army.

@Tom Norman:
Yes! Bolters are the solution! The devatators are actually the solution for horde armies, which is why I don't get overrun! As my devastators land, they will get 16 bolters shots and 2 stormbolter shots, taking good care about almost any and all horde armies that those xenos scum can trow at me.

I can also use my pod as cover againt possible assault/shooting attacks. The 12" range is also not a problem, even if I scatter I will have a trick in my sleeve.

I'll come out so that I'm facing the unit I want to blast, then as I can place the unit 2" away from the pod, they will be maximun at range 11" which mean I can always get my rapidfire!

Look my responce to darthgus about my thoughts on heavy weapons. Also, 4 plasma shots to side/rear armor is going to take care of all and every tank I'm gonna face. Well.. maybe not all but that's why my meltaguns are there!

@bebe
Apothecaries way too expensive, but I can see them working on the inevitable plasma-saves.
Landspeeders and assault squads cannot drop in every mission. See my post to darthgus for more info.

@Tech-Commander Archive
Remember I need to charge the same unit I shoot at, but also, I can shoot the rhino and charge the guys that come from it.

The bolter squads are not meant to take down Big Bugs (referred afterwards as BB's), quite opposite. They will target units such as aspect warriors, dark eldar lance squads, devastators, horde units etc. Everything that will go down in the holy fire of your god given bolter. They will bring their number of shot to bear and take cover of the drop pod.

I have been playing with the idea of giving them the trait Trust Your Battle-Brothers. Ah, forgot the traits, I'll add them.

Expensive! Not so good, and remember they can't charge when they come and are a juicier target for the enemy because they have more points in them.

Should I maybe post in the Medusa also? Yes.. I might do that..

These for now,
thanks for the current replies

HraTaika
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4th Ed Win/Loss ratio
Win: 305
Draw: 71
Loss: 112
Total: 488 games

Though I walk through the Valley of Shadow and Death, I fear no evil.
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Old 29 May 2006, 20:49   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HraTaika
I can shoot the rhino and charge the guys that come from it.
I'm not too sure about this one. Troops and their transport option may count as one force selection choice, but I'm fairly sure troops and their attached transports count as seperate units on the battlefield. If that were not so then you could split a unit's fire between marines on one side of the battlefield and their rhino on the other side!

I think if you shoot at a vehicle and force the troops inside to debus, then you can only assault the vehicle. Might be a bit of a worry if the enemy troops are not entanged because the likelyhood is they'll assault you and you'll lose that crucial charge bonus. You should definately take the 'Trust your Battle Brothers' trait to counter this problem.

I'm unsure about the vet. sgts though. Hopefully you can take down the big nastys with melta guns and such and won't even need powerfists...248 points will buy you a couple more tac squads!
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 29 May 2006, 21:00   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

Yes, the list would look something like this:

EDIT: CURRENT LIST ON TOP OF THIS TOPIC

What do you say Norman, now the devastators are actually working as counter assault units and can rapid fire when they arrive!
__________________
4th Ed Win/Loss ratio
Win: 305
Draw: 71
Loss: 112
Total: 488 games

Though I walk through the Valley of Shadow and Death, I fear no evil.
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Old 29 May 2006, 22:29   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

Apothecaries are expensive, yes. but they work for more than just the plasma guns. If clumped together they can save both shooting and assault wounds - an apothecary in locked in combat cannot but an apothecary within 6" can. So other than instant death and 'no armour save' wounds' clumped apothecaries can be very useful. That said drop pod armies work with just the vet sarges. I like your list better now that you have redone those dev squads and given them a little more power.
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Old 30 May 2006, 00:20   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: [SM, Traits][1500/1850][Medusa V][Themed, Drop Pods]

I like this list a lot better, because by giving the dev squads powerfists, they become capable of helping take out bigger things. This is obviously a tourney list, and when playing competitively you see a trend towards hard to kill units. For 'nids you have the Godzilla list, for tau you have mech, with JSJ suits and skimmer tanks, etc. Standard bolters are next to useless against anything with armor or anything with a better than 5+ save. Powerfist lets the dev teams have something to do when all the squishy targets end up dying. Not quite sure why the random dev Sgt has a bolt pistol though.

Also it is possible to damage a transport in the shooting phase and charge it's former occupants in the assault phase. The rule for Damage to Passengers in the macragge booklet page 68 states that if the vehicle is destroyed or any penetrating hit they disembark. In the Shooting and Assaulting section on page 36 of the macragge booklet, it describes the situation that you can charge multiple enemy units at the same time.

The short of it is basically, if a unit is in it's transport, the transport suffers a penetrating hit, but is not destroyed, and the charging unit can get into base contact with both the tank and the enemy troops at the same time, then yes, a unit can shoot a transport and assault what comes out. Not terribly likely, but it could happen. :P

Of course, you can't charge anything if you shot rapid fire weapons however, which is why I'd still suggest making the meltaguns carry the powerfists and have the larger numbers. Statistically speaking, if you aim the the drop pod one inch off of enemy armor, you will probably end up within the 6 inch range of the melta effect. It will probably only take a round or two of shooting to destroy any tank, with and avg armor penetrating roll of 15. The close range also could put you in position to do the assault trick I pointed out earlier (but don't count on it. :P) After the nearby tanks are gone the meltaguns and powerfists are free to charge whatever is closest.
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Quote:
Better powergaming test? Ok:
1. Do you intend to win even if it might take the fun of the game away from either yourself or your opponent?

If you answered yes to question 1, you are in fact a power gamer, and your list is probably either beardy or you can abuse the rules to make it such.
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