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Adding anti-tank fire for BT army
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Old 21 May 2006, 13:34   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

Hi there!!

I am expanding my BT army and I understood I need more anti-tank/anti-Termies firepower. So I decided that a vehicle is the solution for me, but I still have to decide between the Vindicator and the Predator.

What's your opinion?

Thanks.
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Old 21 May 2006, 13:47   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

Lascannon Preds are expensive and not all that great. Vindicators are also pretty poor at tank hunting in 4th Ed.

I'd go for some Multi Melta attack bikes, I think they fit the BT theme much better. They are fast and pretty durable so they make good scoring units and they are excellent tank hunters, pretty cheap too [money and points]. They're great for just turbo-boosting up the table first turn, getting in close to the enemies most dangerous tank and using the turbo boost invulnerable save to keep them alive. Popping the tank with 2 shots that each will average ab armour penetration roll of 15 and will instantly penetrate anyway. You can then use the wrecked tank to block some enemy return fire next turn.
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Old 21 May 2006, 14:24   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

I dunno, I sure do like the Predator Annihilator's AT firepower...3 lascannon shots? One of them twin linked too. Plus you've got all that armour to hide behind. I stand by my Predator. This one would definately be a dedicated tank hunter though and may find itself redundant without any armour to engage.

If it's fast attack you want then perhaps land speeders in place of bikes? Just as fast, ignores terrain and only takes glancing hits! For 75 points you can fit it out with a multi-melta and a heavy flamer, making it extremely versatile. You can deep strike with them too. A couple of these deep striking into the rear armour facing of an enemy tank is sure to score a kill! The advantage of this choice is that the enemy never knows what you're going to attack...will you go after his tanks, or will you burn up his infantry?

You could take an assault squad outfitted with melta bombs...most opponants don't expect it. They figure assault marines are just there to leap around causing mayhem amongst infantry. You can deep strike them too but I wouldn't recommend it.

Alternatively, if you really want to keep the Black Templars theme, you could go for a Land Raider crusader. Expensive I know, but Black Templars are all about getting up close and what better to facilitate that than a Crusader? I know it's not traditionally understood as a tank killer but twin linked assault cannons can potentially defeat any armour, you'd be surprised how often they get the job done. It also has a multi-melta, so it's perfect for up-close violence. Expensive though.
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Old 21 May 2006, 18:52   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

Thanks for the feedback.

The problem is that sometimes I face opponents without tanks but with lots of termies, so I think that bikes aren't the good solution (I already tried, they get 1-2 kills, but then are slaughtered by the rest of the termies). I'd like to find something that may cope with both situations. (126 points lost vs 80-90..... :'()

Same thing for the Speeder: the assault cannon is great, but requires to be close to the enemy, so in he next turn, the 2 assault cannons of the termies are more than sufficient to destroy it.

However, they are great solution against tanks.

I already have a LR Crusader. That is another reason to take another tank. I want to be sure that even if the LRC is destroyed, I had the possibility to destroy his tanks.
I'd go for another tank also to play more vehicles and force him to choose between: the 2 Rhinos, the Speeder, the LRC and that tank. (1500-2000 points)
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Assault cannon for Dreadnought rules!! Here's why:
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=17692.0

Make the best of your Crusader Squads. How?
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=18509.0
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Old 22 May 2006, 11:16   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

a bike squad, 3 meltas and a multi-melta attack bike. sorted.
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Old 22 May 2006, 13:19   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

Why not try a dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon, extra armour, and missile launcher?

140 points for two high strength/ap shots at 48". It could be a real thorn in his side.
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Old 22 May 2006, 16:26   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstead
Why not try a dreadnought with twin-linked lascannon, extra armour, and missile launcher?

140 points for two high strength/ap shots at 48". It could be a real thorn in his side.
Plus, you can drop-pod them! If you do that though you might want to swap out the missile launcher for a DCCW w/heavy flamer. Gives you the ability to put those big twin-linked lascannons in the rear armour quarter of your quarry (if not lascannons then a slightly cheaper Multi-Melta). The reason for chosing this AT choice over all others can be summed up in three words: Dreadnoughts are cool.
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Old 24 May 2006, 03:52   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

So, this thread hits on one of my big questions I have about priorities for anti-tank units in BT armies. Ultimately the issue is how to find the right balance of anti-tank. I have read numerous posts within this forum and others and they all end up with divergent opinions/recommendations of the following types:

Note: all points are aggregated and approximated.

1) Bike Squad loaded with Meltaguns and a Multi-melta. [This is captainwhizz's favorite]. A bike squad has a bit more staying power than a dreadnought or a landspeeder, since you get the +1 toughness AND the jet movement, effect. This choice also contributes to raising overall mobility, if that's what you're going for.

Weaponry: 3 meltaguns, 1 multi-melta, and the 6 twin-linked bolters.
Points: 255 points
Up side: high mobility, resilient, highly flexible, good anti-tank focus
Down side: fairly expensive, medium to short range

2) Predator Annihilator(s) with lascannon sponsons. This gives the added blast power and range of lascannons. This choice provides range and anti-tank power bar-none, plus this tank is pretty well armored. It also provides a large enough target to divert some anti-tank fire from other units, including a charging LRC.

Weaponry: (1) twin-linked lascannon, (2) lascannons.
Points: 150 points
Up side: strong and ranged fire-power, can draw enemy anti-tank fire
Down side: less mobility, big bull's eye

3) Dreadnought with lascannon and missile launcher. This option can
provide a highly mobile anti-tank threat, especially if given tank-hunter. If you want to maximize survival doing anti-tank duties, you probably need extra-armor and venerable, so that ends up being 170 points, (not including a drop pod, if you want to go that route). This gives you

Weaponry: (1) twin-linked las-cannon, (1) missile launcher
Points: 170 (200 w/drop pod)
Up side: good tank hunting abilities, decent mobility, drop pod
Down side: low armor

4) Land Speeder(s) It seems like most people recommend the tornadoes,
with their rending assault cannons and heavy bolters, for double duty.
Though, if you wanted to go full anti-tank, you could add multi-meltas. If you maximized for anti-tank in this manor you'd have 3 assault cannons, 3 multi-meltas for 285 points.

Weaponry: (1) assault cannon, (1) multi-melta (per speeder)
Points: 95 (285 for a full squadron)
Up side: high mobility, deep strike, good weapons
Down side: low armor

5) Honorable mentions: Assault squads with a powerfist and meltabombs, various terminator configurations. I'd like to admit that I wouldn't take some of these units as configured (e.g. the maxed-out dreadnought), but I am trying to figure out what unit has the most efficient tank hunting ability. Of course, with more points, you can use multiple options and even balance more (e.g. a landspeeder with assault cannon and heavy bolter).

My general strategic sense is that with an assault heavy army you want to provide a diversity of targets and create confusion for the enemy in choosing the right targets. If you want to ensure that your foot-sloggers or mechanized assault units arrive, you either need to be lucky or provide enough counterplay to make sure things arrive across the board. This makes me feel that tanks are not the best option for BT, because mobile units can get out in front and create havoc or distraction. This is why I tend to think highly mobile units like bikes or land speeders would be good anti-tank options, since they compliment BT strengths. Dropping a dreadnought can also have a distracting affect. Ideally you could jet off some bikes, deep strike some speeders, and drop pod a dreadnought! Anyhow, I'd appreciate if someone with more experience weighed in on this, preferably with either serious experiential reality or some science.
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Old 24 May 2006, 09:47   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

vindicators are more than worth their points value. I would take one over a predator annihilator any day. but thats mainly because of speed. to get full value from a predator with both sponsons as lascannons you can't move it at all. but you can move the vindicator up to 6" and still be fully effective.

add a unit of land speeder tornados or a unit of attack bikes and you should be fine.
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Old 24 May 2006, 10:23   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adding anti-tank fire for BT army

I'll make it simply for you.

Preadator Destructor

With las cannon side sponsons


Move, shoot use as cover this works extremly well.

KQD
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