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Standard Space Marines
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Old 07 May 2006, 20:36   #1 (permalink)
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Default Standard Space Marines

What is it that makes a standard space marine, and which chapter is, as it were Standard

If you say that its ultramarines then why. They have things that are unique to them, not to mention that they are filthy hipocrites (they claim to stick to the codex but they own an entire system of planets, which isnt allowed by the codex astartes)

I cant think of any of them that dont have something that makes them unique
Imperial Fists are great defenders
Salamanders are all fire and stuff
Blood angels go blearghghghghghghg plib

There arent really any that you could say are normal.

What would you guys say is the standard marines?

Thanks.
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Old 07 May 2006, 20:45   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

Standard Marines adhere closely to the codex, not exactly. Not even the Ultramarines are 100% codex followers, as can be seen by Honor Guard and Tyranid Hunters and the whole system of planets. Ultramarines are mainly seen as standard becuase they adhere the closest to it. It's not in just unit types and where they have a base. Tactics is also a big thing to it. Ultramarine forces comprimise of equal proportions. They don't go all heavy armor, and don't have too mant foot troops. They put in some elites but not too many. Basically, they use balanced forces, whereas Salamanders use close shooting and Imperial Fists are great Siege fighter and use mostly heavy armor. So that is why Ultramarines are mainly consider standard and the most codex chapter, as they follow the tactics in there almost perfect.

But again, there isn't a chapter who follows the codex 100% no questions asked.
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Old 07 May 2006, 20:48   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

It is Ultramarines. Undesputedly.

Firstly, they tick all the Doctrinate boxes...
  • 1,000 Marines.
  • 10 Companies; 1 = Veteran, 2-5 = Battle, 6-9 = Reserve, 10 = Scout.
  • Employ all units, combat styles, equipment, vehicles and tactics, with no favouring of any one over another.
  • Finally, and here's the kicker... Deviation when the Codex Doctrine fails to suit the situation.

Then there's the Genetic boxes...
  • Pure Gene-Seed. Imperial Fists, Space Wolves and Blood Angels, and all successor Chapters therein, have flawed Gene-Seed.
  • Genetic-stock of the Ultramarines is used in majority of Second Founding Chapters, and subsequent Foundings.

Now the classic counters to the Ultramarines is that they deviate from the Codex... however, nobody ever stops and asks why. These are Astartes, not Guard! They are supposed to be able to think outside the box... and that's precisely what the Ultramarines do.

Take their Honour-Guard... nothing in the Codex says you can't have a retinue for commanding officers (indeed, it lays down precident for it), nor does it say you can't use special armour for such warriors, nor special wargear.

Then there's the Tyranid Hunters... anyone who bothered to read the fluff on them would know the Ultramarines debated whether to create them at all... but the fact was that the majority of Ultramarine Veterans became Veterans from fighting Tyranids... whether they chose to acknowledge them or not, the Ultramarines have had Tyranid Hunters since Behemoth was defeated. I fail to see how acknowledging that they are good at splatting bugs is "deviation from Codex Doctrine".


Ultramarines are standard... hell, they are beyond standard, they are Avatars of the Astartes! They are the ultimate aspiration, the pantheon, the shining level of brilliance all other Chapters aspire to. No-one else comes close.
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Old 07 May 2006, 20:53   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

Good point. I stand corrected.
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Old 07 May 2006, 21:11   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

The Ultramarines are the standard but they think outside the box however that is what other chapters do aswell. The Blood Angels genetic flaw turns some of them into crazed warriors. The situation dictates either executing them or forming them into a usefull fighting company to die on the field and that is what they do. The Space Wolves draw their troops from a feral population, this population is good at hand to hand fighting and a certain type of organization, so they were organized this way. The legendary chapters all think outside the box in one way or another. To find a truly standard marine army that adheres perfectly to the codex astartes you would need to find a successor chapter of the Ultramarines, perfect gene seed, organization, tactics etc as because of the Tyranids even the Ultramarines have had to change. Still you notice there arent any legendary chapters that are perfect standards do you. Those that succeed the most have to adopt change or adapt to best make use of their troops such as the Iron Hands augmetic alterations and zeal, the Space Wolves feral fury, the Blood Angels battle lust, the Imperial Fists stubborness etc.

However I do suppose that even with changes the Ultramarines are the standard marine equivilant all others are compared to. Heck they are the poster boys after all.
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Old 07 May 2006, 22:22   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

your also forgetting that it is the ultramarines primarch that created the codex in the first place.

and wheres the love for my dark angels? you mentioned imperial fists, space wolves, and blood angels. don't you know the sea of green is in? :'(

other than that you put it down perfectly wargamer.
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Old 08 May 2006, 03:40   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

Besides that, they are the only (standard) marine chapter that looks like they had Superman for a Primarch, and how can that be a bad thing? ;D
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Old 08 May 2006, 03:56   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

Raven Guard are pretty codex. They just use their scout company alot.
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Old 08 May 2006, 06:56   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

However, Raven Guard have a predisposition for assault-troops and covert operations... they favour this combat style, whereas the Ultramarines favour no style over another.
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Old 08 May 2006, 12:22   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Standard Space Marines

the only marines that would be more codex than the ultramarines is a vanilla chapter you create that doesn't use any of the traits in the back. but then you also lose the access to the tyranid hunters and the honour guard(?). plus usually when you play your own marine list, you want to use the trait system, so I don't see the pure vanilla chapter happening.

I can see it now though: " a new chapter founded with the most steadfast of marines from the ultramarine genetick stock. their inability to stray from the codex written in stone in their fortress of their home planet has lead to some troubles in the past. especially when it was revealed that those in the chapters 1000 marines, those that do try to deviate even in the slightest are shot on sight and their gene seed purged so that no more chaotic ways of thinking would manifest. They are the Commisars of Ultramar!"
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