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Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:
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Old 03 May 2006, 16:55   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

I have a fair few Ultra Marine models lying around, I did have plans for a Nid Hunter list expecting everyone to start playing Nids when the new Dex come out.......but they didn't around my local gaming club, group of mates etc. So here's another list;

[size=12pt]Troops[/size]

6 Marines; 115 Points
Lascannon,
Plasma Gun.

6 Marines; 115 Points
Lascannon,
Plasma Gun.

6 Marines; 115 Points
Lascannon,
Plasma Gun.

6 Marines; 115 Points
Lascannon,
Plasma Gun.

6 Scouts; 93 Points
2 Sniper Rifles,
Heavy Bolter.

[size=12pt]Fast Attack;[/size]

Land Speeder Tornado; 80 Points

Land Speeder Tornado; 80 Points

[size=12pt]Heavy Support[/size]

Predator; 115 Points
Extra Armour.

[size=12pt]HQ[/size]

Captain; 65 Points
Storm Bolter.

[size=12pt]Elites[/size]

Dreadnought; 110 Points
Extra Armour.

Summary;

31 Infantry,
1 Tank,
1 Walker,
2 Skimmers.

5 Heavy Bolters,
4 Lascannons,
4 Plasma Guns,
3 Assault Cannons.

What do you think? any suggestions?.
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Old 03 May 2006, 20:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
I have a fair few Ultra Marine models lying around, I did have plans for a Nid Hunter list expecting everyone to start playing Nids when the new Dex come out.......but they didn't around my local gaming club, group of mates etc. So here's another list;
Quote:
6 Marines; 115 Points
Lascannon,
Plasma Gun.

6 Marines; 115 Points
Lascannon,
Plasma Gun.

6 Marines; 115 Points
Lascannon,
Plasma Gun.

6 Marines; 115 Points
Lascannon,
Plasma Gun.
Pretty good firebase, you can never have enough of those squads
But some people will disagree, people don't like it that you take small squads just for the ability that you can take more heavy weapons.

Quote:
6 Scouts; 93 Points
2 Sniper Rifles,
Heavy Bolter.
What do you want to do with the three other scouts? You will probably fire from range, it is better to take more Sniper rifles.

Quote:
Land Speeder Tornado; 80 Points

Land Speeder Tornado; 80 Points
Good fast unit's, the assault cannon's can practically take on anything.

Quote:
Predator; 115 Points
Extra Armour.
Good tank against infantry. Smoke launchers could come in handy, they are really cheap, so why not?

Quote:
Captain; 65 Points
What is he armed with? I think a storm bolter. What do you want to do with him?
You should better give him a job to do.

Quote:
Dreadnought; 105 Points
He really needs extra armour, otherwise he will be one of the first things that will be taken down.
Also consider Smoke launchers.


Summary: Pretty decent list, good base of fire.
The problem I think that will occur is that your army has virtually no Assault unit.
You should have a assault squad for counter attacking. Or else you will be smoked in assualt.
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Old 03 May 2006, 21:10   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

Yeah, the Captain has a Storm Bolter and theres enough points left for the extra armour on the Dread.

With regards to Assault the list is based around lots of small units that I can afford to stall assaults with and not lose many points for. It will be hard for enemy assault units to cause enough damage simply because of the amount of small units I have.

The Captain is there solely because of his special rules and the fact I have to take a HQ. Even if I kit him out for combat it wont be enough to repel assaults so he is best remaining as basic and cheap as possible.

The Scout squad only has 2 Sniper Rifles as there isn't much point in giving every member an expensive weapon, then you lose one with every casualty and the points mount up for something you wont get much use out of as your bound to take a few casualties.

Still I will take the extra armour on the Dread although it wont leave me the points for the Smoke Launchers on the Pred.
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Old 04 May 2006, 07:48   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

that has to be the most boring list, Ive ever seen.. cant see how anyone would wanna play against that list.. I can smell the cheese all the way over here.

Why not throw 2 of the tac units in the garbage can, and add in a unit of termis, with 2 assault cannons. theyll bring a good pack of firepower, and can throw off a enemy assault!
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Old 04 May 2006, 11:15   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

Quote:
With regards to Assault the list is based around lots of small units that I can afford to stall assaults with and not lose many points for. It will be hard for enemy assault units to cause enough damage simply because of the amount of small units I have.
You should remember that if an enemy unit assaults one of your squads, you wont be able to shoot on that assaulting squad. If your squad gets killed in your turn, the enemy will then be able to assault another squad in his turn. If you are facing a very fast assault unit you are in deep trouble. My point is you need to have a unit that can take out enemy squads in assault.

Quote:
The Captain is there solely because of his special rules and the fact I have to take a HQ. Even if I kit him out for combat it wont be enough to repel assaults so he is best remaining as basic and cheap as possible.
65 points just for a Leadership of 9? IMO that's a waste. A Captain is your best single model in a Assault, he has the best weapon skill of the army. If you just want to go for the extra leadership, go for a Master, for just the cost of a single marine you can get a leadership of 10.

Quote:
The Scout squad only has 2 Sniper Rifles as there isn't much point in giving every member an expensive weapon, then you lose one with every casualty and the points mount up for something you wont get much use out of as your bound to take a few casualties.
I didn't say you needed to arm all your scouts with sniper rifles, 4 would be a good choice.
Remember 2 Sniper rifles aren't going to do a lot of damage. 5/6 of the shots will hit, 1/2 of those shots will wound and then the enemy still gets to make his save. So expect little casualties from those 2 Sniper rifles. I would say the chance that you will get a pinning test from that squad are very low.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalyptic
that has to be the most boring list, Ive ever seen.. cant see how anyone would wanna play against that list.. I can smell the cheese all the way over here.
Why not throw 2 of the tac units in the garbage can, and add in a unit of termis, with 2 assault cannons. they'll bring a good pack of firepower, and can throw off a enemy assault!
I do believe he is free to take any list he wants, don't go yelling cheese at people's list.
While Terminators seem a good choice, a general rule is that Terminators should be reserved for games of 1500 points and above. This is due to points cost. A good thing about this army is the amount of scoring units.
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Old 04 May 2006, 11:41   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

Quote:
Heavy Support

Predator; 115 Points
Extra Armour.

HQ

Captain; 65 Points
Stormbolter.

Elites

Dreadnought; 110 Points
Extra Armour.
This is 290 points i offer you this alternative since i see the following happening. Turn 1 Predetor goes boom, Turn 2 Dreadnaught goes boom.

9 Assault Marines; 208 Points
x 2 plasma pistol

HQ Captian; 96 Points
w/ jump pack, bolt pistol and power weapon

Total Points 304

So i am sadly 14 points over what i took out but this might add some counter assault for your shooter squads. Letting your shooters do what they are supposed to.
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Old 04 May 2006, 12:47   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:


'that has to be the most boring list, Iíve ever seen.. cant see how anyone would wanna play against that list.. I can smell the cheese all the way over here.'

I fail to see how it is particularly beardy or boring.

Over 50% of my force is made up of none min-maxed Troops. I have a selection from every category on the FOC. The list has a fire-base and 4 mobile fire-power units which are interesting to play with and against. It's a list based on small scoring units, which makes for interesting lists in itself.

So how about you actually say why it's beardy and boring? the only thing I can see that anybody would have troubles with is the fact my Tac squads are on the small side.

With regards to close combat, Tau do fine with lots of small scoring units without combat support. Not a lot of enemy assault troops will hit my fire-base with the fire-power I have, then they would have to kill 5 squads [so a minimum of 5 turns assuming they have survived even if not it will still take forever], each time killing them in my turn to avoid fire-power [and those Marine units will either hold up a unit that isn't great in combat and cause some damage or they will be ran straight over leaving me to shoot in my turn, so either way it isn't a big problem]. You don't require a close combat squad to counter enemy close combat squad, you can use fire-power in exactly the same way. Very easily when there are so many small units for the enemy close combat units to get hung up on.

65 Points is a great price to give 30 other models +1 LD. You pay 13 points per unit to upgrade to LD 9 in Chaos armies. If I had to do that here that would cost me exactly the same. Plus it takes up my HQ choice. With regards to the Master, I'd never use one in any game under 2000 points, It's not often you see the Chapter Master leading a tiny little Tactical Force.

5/6 Sniper Rifle shots hit, not 2/3. 2 should cause about 1 wound per turn, so a pinning test a turn on lightly armed units. That's the only reason they are there really, as Sniper Rifles are awful for causing damage [especially as most high toughness models have a good save]. Still, the main reason for not having more is the lack of points. Same thing goes for the Captain as there isn't really much I can drop. I can't drop a model out of any of my troop choices as 6 is by far the best number for any shooting units.

I would take an Assault element and give my Captain more if I had more points, It's just I don't have much I can drop without compromising a lot of fire-power, something which isn't worth it for an average assault element in the army, as then I won't have enough fire-power to outshoot enemies and I wont have enough assault capability to out fight them up close. It just totally messes with the balance of the list in such small games.

Like with that Assault Squad. I lose;

Autocannon,
2 Heavy Bolters,
Assault Cannon.

Thatís about a third of my fire-power, It's half of my mobile fire-power [which is essential] and it means the Speeders will be the first target for any heavy weapons and easily downed.

With regards to adding Termies, It's not a bad idea [they can keep up fore-power on the move, I only lose 1 scoring unit and they are good in combat] BUT I can't believe somebody that calls this list beardy and boring would suggest adding Termies to a 1000 point army.....

I'll definitely be taking a counter assault element with more points, but I can't see a way of fitting one in at 1000 points without compromising the list, unless I've missed something?.

EDIT; This list scores -2 on the Powergamer test.
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Old 04 May 2006, 15:51   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

Veq,

The list is solid, except for one thing: the dreadnought. Everything else is resilient, fast or outputs great damage. The dreadnought is slow, has limited range and isn't that resilient (compared to say a land speeder which is fast enough to use it's weapons and actually about as resilient even as a lower armored vehicle, thanks to glance only skimmer rules while moving fast). You could get another scout team with the points, or you could get a squad of walking bolter tac marines.

It would be a good idea to have a few marines who can move/walk and intercept small things with bolters, while you use your big guns for more efficient targets. A fun trick for that, is to take a fast attack assault team, and use the ability to take off their jump packs. It gives you literally assault marines for cheap, without the use of traitors, and allows cheap plasma pistols. A squad of 6 with plasma pistols is only 100 points. That's great for counter assault and interception and still has the ability to roast something with plasma while walking around (low risk of over heat). Best of all, they're fast attack and deploy last in sequence... allowing you to setup for infiltrators to meet them.

The predator is totally fine, since A13 in 1k is not so simple to crack while it only has dakka weapons compared to the high powered punch of the other units in your force. Anyone taking out your predator before your land speeders is pretty much going to probably lose the game. And someone who's focusing on that predator instead of your steadfast marines is also going to have a hard time doing much else. So if all else, the Predator can serve a win/win situation, being a fire magnet to the poor commander, or the everlasting dakka engine against someone who's going to focus on your harder to crack units who output more damage.

Cheers!
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Old 04 May 2006, 17:45   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

the beardy part from me comes from the 4 min/max tac troops.. the other

but seeing it like this:

drop 2 tac units and a speeder and you drop:
2 lascannons
2 plasma guns
1 heavy bolter
1 assault cannon
8 bolters

310 pts

for this, you can get:
6 terminators
2 assault cannon
4 stormbolters

(280 pts)

2 scouts
1 sniperrifle

(30 pts)

you lose 2 scoring units. but you also get a bigger scout unit, that has a better chance of surviving if you infiltrate. the terminators can be teleported, just by the scouts, and give you quite a solid firebase.
1. This will force your enemy to either focus on the tacs, and get punished by the terminators and scouts.
2. focus on the terminators and scouts, and get some lascannon fire in his buttocks.
3. divide his fire, and thus giving all your units a better chance of surviving.

those are only my points.. but I think they are quite good changes...
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Old 04 May 2006, 17:58   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Ultra Marines; 1000 Points - Fire-power Focus:

I don't think the list really needs any serious changing other than extra armour on the dread (which I believe was added.)

Alternativley Mals suggestion of the (somewhat unorthodox) footslogging counter attack assault marines is great.

Though another cheaper version of the footslogging assault marines would be a slightly larger scout squad with BPs&CCW's lurking in difficult terrain just behind your firing line.

If you do change anything DON'T get rid of your landspeeders, they're essential since they're your only source of speed.

Terminators in 1000 points just don't work that well. They quickly eat up 25%+ of your points and it's simply not worth it for 5 or 6 guys.

They can do a lot of damage and are very resiliant to small arms fire but they do eventually die. Be it to concentrated firepower (like loads of Pulse rifles) or to plasma or other high ap weapons.

They've got a 5+ invlunerable but if you put a marine squad in cover they're just as resilient to high ap shooting and for about 1/3 the price per model.
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