[Shaso Wanax]

?

[captainwhizz]

I personally also suck at 1000pts.
I think it's because of the lack of mobility in my army.
what opponents do you play?

[Tom Norman]

It's probably not your list...like 'the honourable gentleman' just pointed out, low point games are hard to win with Marines...I guess you just can't bring enough firepower to bear to stem the tide. Your list is probably not at fault, but you just need to practice more with your Marines. But here are my recommendations...although you will have to chop and change in order to incorporate any of them (they'll just add cost, rather than take it away).

• In my opinion, I think you should give your commander a jump pack and a pair of lightning claws (then attach him to your assault squad). *It'd be a shame to waste all those initiative 5 attacks.
• Add a heavy bolter to that devastator squad and swap out one missile launcher for a second heavy bolter
• People underestimate the effectiveness of two flamers in an assault squad.
• Lose the Auspex from the drop-podding squad. *By my own understanding of the rules, an auspex is of no use whatsoever to a unit deployed from reserve.
• You might consider a plasma gun or even a meltagun instead of a flamer for your foot-slogging tactical squad...they're just more likely to find themselves in range.
• A rhino is also a great investment because even if it is wrecked, it can still be used as effective cover.
• Unless deploying from Land Raider, your Terminators should carry two assault cannons and take the 'Tank Hunters' special rule.

[captainwhizz]

Personally, in 1000pts, I field:

Captain with Iron Halo, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon
Command squad with vet sgt, plas pistol, fist, apothecary, two plasma guns, infiltrate

8 man tac squad, heavy bolter, plasma, vet sgt with fist

6 man tac squad, lascannon, plasma

8 man assault squad, two flamers, vet sgt with fist

8 man dev squad, 4 missile launchers


I thought it would be a great, flexible army. But the command squad is a huge fire magnet, and then the assault squad gets shot up too. The tac squads never do ll that much, but the devs are quite good.

[Tom Norman]

In such low-point games, are you not better off bringing an extensive assortment of anti-infantry weapons like heavy bolters? Then you could pack tank-killer weapons into the tactical squads and draw fire away from the command squad.

[Shaso Wanax]

Here is a problem, I can't use too much fancy stuff because of the fluff basis of the army.

I like the jump pack idea for the commander. I will probably add flamers or plasma to the jumpers.

I can't have a rhino because of fluff, so I may add another drop pod.

I don't want to bog down my tac squads with heavy weapons, as I want them to move; however they need something. Maybe a second devistator with H bolters...

Thanks, keep the advice coming.

Wanax

[Morgue]

I'd make a few minor changes to the list but they're mostly prefrence. The Dev squad really doesn't need frags, you want them blasting away as long as they can not assaulting units that are hiding in cover. Pull the Auspex out of the Podded Tac squad, they really aren't putting it to any use. I'd also yank the vindicator for the time being, and replace it with a Dread or more troops for the time being (purely prefrence). Pull the flamer out of the footslogging tac squad. That doesn't free up allot of points but should give you enough to drop another weapon in that Dev squad, add a marine to one of your squads, or supply Beta squad with a assault weapon.

Chances are you're expecting too much from your beaky boys, approach them as you would your Tau forces. Interlock fields of fire chewing up a squad at a time, use your assault marines to either tie up fast movers or eat up heavy weapons crews. Your commander is basicly a anchor or counter charging unit with this army as well, he's a tough nut to crack but without transportation opponents will just avoid him when they can or bog him down with numbers when they have to.

Give us a few examples of what's happening during your matches and maybe we can figure out where the break down is occuring.

[Falstead]

Hmm usually Marines do quite well in small games because of the quality of their basic troopers.

How do some of your squads have auspex without vetran seargents?

Ok moving onto advice:

HQ: This HQ is good but also very expensive, I would suggest taking a chaplain istead and leaving the artificer armour at home. This way your HQ who is currently 150 points can be dropped down to 87 (reclusiarch with pistol and frag grenades). He's not quite as killy now but he makes the squad he's with fearless. He doesn't need master crafting because he gets re-rolls on the charge. Now the best place for this guy is at the front, so if you can give him a jump pack and throw him in with the assault marines. After the jump pack is added you've still freed up 44 points.
The one disadvantage to taking a Chappy is that you lose the Ld 10 for the rest of your force but thats ok, marines still have good Ld and if they fail the occasional test its not the end of the world because the Know no Fear.

Dev squad looks good, but i'd take off the frags and illegal auspex, that saves you 8 points.

Your drop pod squad looks good but i'd make a couple of changes to it. Drop the auspex first since its useless to them. I'd take off the frags because this squad is going to be deep striking they'll land shoot and probably get charged. So if you're getting charged those grenades are not going to help you.
By removing all that you've save 12 points.

Beta squad looks good. you might consider putting a plasma gun in here instead of a flamer for some increased range, high ap/strength power but thats just preference.

The assault squad. I'd try to add in an extra marine or two here so they can really take a couple of shooting casualties and keep on going in combat.

The new army list might look something like this

Reclusiarch w/ jump pack, frag grenades, pistol
107

10 Tactical marines w/ flamer, vetran w/ power weapon, drop pod
216

10 Tactical marines w/ grenades, flamer, vetran w/ power weapon, auspex
198

6 assault marines w/ vetran, powerfist, furious assault
180

6 Devestators w/ 3 missile launchers
150

Total: 851

Now you have enough points left to either take the Vindicator or soemthing else.
Personally I wouldn't take the Vinnie in a game this small since its a HUGE fire magnet, but that can be a very useful thing to have. What you might do instead is take a couple landspeeders w/ assault cannons or maybe a dreadnought, or another missile launcher dev squad.

[Yriel of Iyanden]

Hi Wanax,

Sounds like some tough times for the Bob Force! I've read your fluff and seen the models in the showcase, and I'll admit I'm a big fan of the Bobs, but probably not a die-hard Marine player like the rest of the posters here. Still, I offer you my insight, from the Mentor Legion!

HQ
Master
pistol, MC powerweapon, artificer armor, iron halo

You've geared up Master Bob for combat- which is great. But, like other have mentioned, he's a bit pricey...I tend to go with artificer armor OR Iron halo, rarely both because the Master can't really justify the cost based on what he does. In 1,000pt games, stay cheap. You seem to enjoy the jump pack idea, so go for it- but take a Storm shield instead of the Iron Halo- it's cheaper and sounds more fun. Artificer armor is optional, so I'd take it if only for fluff reasons.

Heavy
Devistator sqd: 3 Missile launchers, 3 bolters, frags, auspex
vindicator w/ extra armor, machine spirit, smoke

Both of these units are wayyy expensive. The beauty of the Dev squad is in the heavy bolter, I'd take a Dev unit full of heavy bolters, but missile launchers are just too pricey. If you want to keep the missiles, consider taking 2 and putting them into medium sized (6-8 model) tac squads, paired with plasma for busting, or optionally a flamer for bolter traps. This helps beef up your troop selections too.

As for the Vindicator, I'm sure you're aware of the high skill involved in optimizing this unit (I normally run one too.). I'd drop the power of the Machine Spirit, just to lesson the blow on your points. Remember- the fact that this is the vehicle in your list makes your optimal function at 24", so I tend to work around this premise.

Fast
Assault sqd 4 SM w/P&CCW, 1 Vet Sgt 2/ pistol & powerfist, furious assault

A nice, killy squad, but pricey and small. Consider adding a member or two.

Troops
Alpha squad V sgt P&powerweapon, 7 bolters, 1 flamer, frags, drop pod, auspex
Beta squad, V sgt P&powerweapon, 7 bolters, 1 flamer, frags aupex

I like these units. With the jump packing assault squad, Alpha can run a lot of option plays, but I'd take a plasma or a metlagun if I'm that deep into a deployment zone. Also- drop the Auspexes on both units- flamers will automatically be out of range so it's just long range bolter fire hitting possible infiltrators, not really worth it unless you're taking them for fluff.

Also- the vet sgt. on Beta squad isn't worth the upgrade. That squad is better off as a bolter-fire team, so I'd drop him back to a regular sgt. with a good 'ol trusty bolter. For the Sgt. Alpha Bob, I'd take a plasma pistol instead of the power weapon. You're drop podding, so you'll want to make the most of that first round of fire.

Anyway- those are my comments. If you reconfigure your list- you should be looking at 4 tac squads, 1 assault squad, 1 vindicator, and a cheaper master. Good luck!

[Shaso Wanax]

One of my regular opponents is Deamon hunters, so facing teleporting grayknight terminators is my bane. The master has the iron halo just because of the invulnerable with these guys. Last night his termies killed the master and all 5 assault marines in 1 turn. Wicked tools they are

I will injest what all have said and adjust. Yes, I know the auspex are worthless on some units, I just didn't remove them from previous footslogging versions. Also the V SGT is the same on beta sqd. I will have to paint up some plasma/melta guys, but this is a sound idea for the droppers.

The vindicator stays
It is the only vehicle that really fits the fluff, which is also why the missile launchers rather than heavy bolters.

Last night, btw, an assasin killed off the entire Dev squad in 2 turns.

Wanax