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The Thousand Sons.
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Old 19 Jan 2006, 16:28   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default The Thousand Sons.

Oh, I know what you are all thinking. "Why isn't this in the Chaos Sapce Marines forum?" Well... Don't move this.

I'm looking to do pre-heresy Thousand Sons painted in the pre-heresy scheme including pre-heresy everything. I'm asking what chapter rule set would you think would fits them? Pros, cons, and etc.. Also, can anyone find a pre-heresy paint scheme picture as well?

Thank you in advance.

-Jason.
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Old 19 Jan 2006, 16:45   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

Well the thousand sons rely a lot on massed infantry and bolter fire. I think the most appropriate thing to do would be to use the regular marine codex and take the Trust your battle brothers trait, so all your guys have true grit. Really gives a feel of massed and skilled infantry. If you wanted to be really divergent you could also give them never despair. The ability to take the extra turn could represent the pre battle scrying the chapters librians would do.

Now since you've taken two traits from differnt styles you need to take a major and minor drawback.

The most obvious major drawback would be flesh over steel, once again showing their use of massed infantry, but still allowing you to take some manuverable fast attack choices to exploit enemy weaknesses during the battle.

For the minor trait I think We Stand Alone would actually be appropriate.
Normally taking this minor drawback is really cheesy since most players don't use Allies anyways, but for the Thousand Sons, who were always viewed with some suspicion this would actually be a very fluffy choice.

Now for your HQ's you'd obviously take as many librarians as possible, and give them all sorts of fun wargear and pyschic powers. I'd suggest at least 2 if not 4.

As for the thousand sons pre-heresy colour scheme it can be found in Index Astartes, I'm not sure which book, I have an old white dwarf with it.
However I know the majority of their armour was white with red trim. Strikingly similar to the Blood Ravens Chapter....

Hope this info helps.
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Old 19 Jan 2006, 16:56   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

Man that sounds like a great idea. Make sure to really work on a banner for your army to use in command squad if you wish or just for displaying your fluffy side.
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Old 19 Jan 2006, 19:31   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

True Grit, for the 1K sons? You may write a good post, Falstead, but your reasoning is terminally flawed.

I wouldn't use Traits at all. Instead, just field them as a normal Marine force. Their only major "traits" were their high number of Pyskers, so only take Librarians as HQ, no-one else.

Everything else, leave as is. The Land Speeder, Vindicator and Whirlwind were used by both sides during the Heresy... although do not use the Land Raider Crusader, or any Land Speeder variants; they all came later.
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Old 19 Jan 2006, 19:54   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

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True Grit, for the 1K sons? You may write a good post, Falstead, but your reasoning is terminally flawed.
Owww...

A pat on the head and a kick in the teeth...


I supose you might be right though.
I thought True Grit might be interesting since Thousand sons post heresy are mainly just guys with bolters and to continue that theme True Grit works nicely but yeah there's no real precedent for it.

However I think you should still use Never Despair and We Stand Alone because they won't effect army composition at all (except for allies) and they have an interesting thematic impact on the army.
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Old 19 Jan 2006, 21:52   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

Good to toss out there. My rough thought was to have an army serving two purposes. More of a, "What shall I whip yer' butt with ta'day?" type thing.

I like all of the replies thus far; keep them up.

As far as scheme is considered, I knew they were predom. white, but could not remember the offset colors.

-Jason.
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Old 21 Jan 2006, 09:12   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

I think you will have to draw from both SM and CSM codexes.

First up the CSM codex will be the truest model of pre-hersey organisation (ie: squads of up to 20 Marines). Obviously you are going to have to disregard anything obviously chaos and moden... Defilers, Obliterators, etc...

Secondly by looking at the diffrences between SM and CSM codexes you can get a picture of what has changed and what a Pre-Heresy army can use... Land Speeders are a modern addition to SM becuase they do not appear in CSM for example.

Other wise good luck!
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Old 21 Jan 2006, 20:55   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthgus
I think you will have to draw from both SM and CSM codexes.

First up the CSM codex will be the truest model of pre-hersey organisation
Not really... if anything, the Black Templar Codex is the truest example of how Pre-Heresy Marines worked. Chaos have turned, and with that they have cast aside any need to adhere to the old chains of command...
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Old 22 Jan 2006, 05:59   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

Blood Ravens.

Let me say that again: Blood Ravens.

Same colors as pre-heresy 1k Sons, similar psychic atuneness, quest for power...

Which makes one wonder...
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Old 22 Jan 2006, 17:08   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Thousand Sons.

Pre Heresy Color Scheme was red all over. It is shown in Index Astartes III, and I've seen it both in a pre heresy WD article, and woulda swore I saw it on the UK website... but cant find it anymore!

As for Pre Heresy Composition, there was another thread about this (in chaos forum) a while ago that got me thinking a bit about that, and a lot more about Ksons. Here's how I saw it:

Pre Heresy means 10002 years ago, and things were a bit different then. Some of the odd Chaos Troop weapon options can mean the good old ways: like the Autocannon hvy weapons upgrade, and the ComiBolter special weapon. There are probably more things out there that I'm not remembering, but the example gets the point across.

Ksons were all psychic. All of them back then, to a greater or lesser degree. What this means in Game terms is that the veterans and leaders are sorcerers. There is fluff of the Ksons crusades using sorcerous fire and other near blasphemous powers in their campains.. to back this up.

So, to put all this together, build a standard space marine army, paint them the pre heresy red scheme, use the Chaos codex rules for Chaos Undivided, and limit and tailor yourself to be sorcerous, but NOT daemonic. Here's a list of limiting 'themes' to make this work:
  • Rename some wargear and daemonic gifts:
  • Daemonic Aura: Sorcerous Aura
  • Daemonic Fire: Sorcerous Fire
  • Daemonic rune: Sorcerous rune
  • Winds of change: Sorcerous Inferno
  • Mark of Tzeench: Gift of Magnus
  • Disc of Tzeench: Sorcerous Steed
  • avoid spiky and screaming maw bitz, or shave them off
  • Don't use any Daemon units
  • Dint use any Daemonic weapons/gifts/wargear
  • Chapter Master will have a Mark of Tzeench, psychic goodies, thrall wizards, all the sorcerous stuff
  • Elite Chosen squads can also be Sorcerous, making a Doombolt/winds of change/ bolt of change magic fire squad... maybe add a Blasted Standard
  • Basic troop Veterans will be aspiring champions with the daemonic fire gift, to represent near-sorcerers able to shoot sorcerous flames
  • troop weapon upgrades will have a few oddballs, like an Autocannon, to represent old fashioned

You can stretch things a bit more if you want, by.. for instance; summoning horrors as a better, more permanent version of Fury of the Ancients (just paint the horrors fluid-fire like, to represent Fire elemental looking constructs), and other stuff like that. I think I've laid a pretty solid ground base to work from, and you can take it out on your own direction from there.. you see where I was going, and how I was going to do it... now make it your own!
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