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Weakness to this Army List?
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 06:25   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Weakness to this Army List?

I know that I have been posting lots of posts about marines' weaknesses and I am probably annoying with it, but I am desperate. I don't know if my deployment is faulty, but I just can't beat this list. What are the weaknesses to this list and how should I expose it?

HQ:
Librarian w/ Power that makes blast template and tests initiative (forgot name)

Troops:
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Grey Knights

Elites:
5 Terminators w/ Assault Cannon, Cyclone Missile Launcher

Fast Attack:
5 Assault Troopers
1 Land Speeder

Heavy Support:
1 Vindicator
1 Vindicator
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 07:36   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

Can you post you're army list aswell?
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 08:57   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

Damn...that's a really strong army list; it's so flexible. Plasma weapons, bud...lots of 'em.
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 11:55   #4 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

How many points is this?

As for how to beat it, you play Ig, right?

2 words, Leman Russ.

Oh, and 1 more, Lascannon.

The Lemans can take out his marines, focus on the grey knights first.

the Lascannons deal with the vindicators.

If you post your list up we could probably help more.
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 18:02   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

My Tau list looks something like this, but changes slightly when determining point levels.

HQ:
Shas'O w/ Helios

Troops:
12 Fire Warriors w/ Shas'ui, Devilfish w/ Decoy Launchers
12 Fire Warriors w/ Shas'ui, Markerlight
12 Kroot

Elites:
6 Stealthsuits
1 Crisis Battlesuit w/ Fireknife
1 Crisis Battlesuit w/ Fireknife

Heavy Support:
1 Hammerhead w/ Railgun/Ion Cannon, Burst Cannons, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock/Disruption Pod
1 Broadside w/ Shield Generator
1 Broadside w/ Multi-Tracker

Against the marine list, how should I expose any weaknesses the list has?
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Originally Posted by Rev_Enge(spc)
And there we have it. Gentlemen, we give you Black Behemoth, future Supreme Overlord of Earth.
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Old 18 Jan 2006, 01:34   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

Looking at it, I'd ahve to say part of the problem is he came loaded for bear. That's alot of lascannons which will put a good dent in a mech list. The termies and Greyknights are going to be tough in close and the Termies are also outfitted for a ranged fight....

If I had to make a guess I'd say he cusotmed his list for yours.
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Old 18 Jan 2006, 11:06   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

So my Tau are screwed, right? I guess I'll have to wait for Vespids and Sniper Drones for it to be fixed.

What about this Imperial Guard list? I haven't officially bought it yet but I am testing it out mathematically to measure its effectiveness against my prime opponent, Space Marines. Would this do good against this infernal army list?

HQ:
Command Squad w/ HSO, Power Weapon, Storm Bolter, Iron Discipline, Surveyor, Veteran Medic, Missile Launcher, 1 Guardsman w/ Lasgun, Light Infantry
Anti-Tank Squad w/ 3 Lascannons
Mortar Squad w/ 3 Mortars

1 Commissar w/ Power Weapon, Storm Bolter

Troops:
Command Squad w/ JO, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Iron Discipline, 4 Guardsmen w/ Plasmaguns, Light Infantry
Infantry Squad w/ Missile Launcher
Infantry Squad w/ Missile Launcher
Infantry Squad w/ Missile Launcher
Infantry Squad w/ Missile Launcher
Infantry Squad w/ Missile Launcher

Conscript Platoon w/ 50 Conscripts, 3 Flamers

Grenadiers w/ 2 Plasmaguns, 8 Storm Troopers w/ Hellguns, Chimera w/ Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter, Smoke Launchers

Elites:
Veteran Squad w/ Veteran Sergeant w/ Bolter, Lascannon, 7 Veterans w/ Lasguns
Veteran Squad w/ Veteran Sergeant w/ Bolter, Autocannon, 7 Veterans w/ Lasguns
Veteran Squad w/ Veteran Sergeant w/ Bolter, Missile Launcher, 7 Veterans w/ Lasguns

Fast Atack
1 Sentinel w/ Mars Pattern (Multi-Laser)
2 Sentinels w/ Armageddon Pattern (Lascannon)

Heavy Support
1 Leman Russ w/ Lascannon
1 Leman Russ w/ Lascannon
1 Leman Russ w/ Lascannon

Doctrines:
Iron Discipline
Close Order Drill
Veterans
Conscript Platoons
Light Infantry

His army is slow and he doesn't know that Grey Knights can deep-strike. His whole army is unmounted and just sits there using Lascannons. His Termies move and shoot and his Vindicators move up, but that is pretty much it. How could I use this army list to blow holes in his army?
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Originally Posted by Rev_Enge(spc)
And there we have it. Gentlemen, we give you Black Behemoth, future Supreme Overlord of Earth.
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Old 18 Jan 2006, 11:18   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

Use the armageddon class sentinels to take out his vindicators.

Use the conscripts to take out his terminators. i know from experience that termies don't like flamer templates. Add that to the fact that there are 50 of them and you've probably just neutralised the Terminator threat.

Use the lemans to shell his main lines, the pie plates will really put dent's in his numbers and should force Ld tests quickly.

Target the Grey Knights with the missile launchers in the squads. If they're advancing then use lasguns as soon as you can as well. Stay behind any cover you have and target his Librarian whenever you get a chance, if he only has a 3+ save then try shelling him once the normal maries have been reduced.
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Old 18 Jan 2006, 13:01   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commissar Black Behemoth
Troops:
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Grey Knights
This is nasty. Luckily most SM players don't recognize the strength of going troop heavy, so you don't see many lists like this. About all you can do is put decoy launchers on all your vehicles and keep them moving while you shoot these guys up with pulse rifles and ion cannon.

Quote:
Fast Attack:
5 Assault Troopers
1 Land Speeder
These are actually fairly weak units. I would make the Assault Squad my primary target for pulse rifle fire and they should evaporate pretty quickly. Single speeders are usually not too much of a problem to deal with, either.

Quote:
Heavy Support:
1 Vindicator
1 Vindicator
Railguns until they die. That's about the best you can do unless you want to try deep striking some Sun Forge crisis suits in behind them?

It is a tough list to face. One thing is to make sure that you are using the recomeded 25% or more terrain! You don't want to face this list on an open field. No matter what, its going to take good tactics and at least a bit of good luck to defeat it, but its not hopeless! 8)
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Old 18 Jan 2006, 13:08   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Weakness to this Army List?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commissar Black Behemoth
I know that I have been posting lots of posts about marines' weaknesses and I am probably annoying with it, but I am desperate. I don't know if my deployment is faulty, but I just can't beat this list. What are the weaknesses to this list and how should I expose it?

HQ:
Librarian w/ Power that makes blast template and tests initiative (forgot name)

Troops:
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Tacticals w/ Lascannon
10 Grey Knights

Elites:
5 Terminators w/ Assault Cannon, Cyclone Missile Launcher

Fast Attack:
5 Assault Troopers
1 Land Speeder

Heavy Support:
1 Vindicator
1 Vindicator
This SM list is weak, not strong. It has many weapons, but most require the SM sqd to remain stationary. Using movement and terrain will reduce the effectiveness of the lascannon shooting. Also it has virtually no ability to move laterally. 1 landspeeder is all he has to reenforce flanks, and it is the easiest thing for Tau to take out. 2 vindicators are tough, but with a short range they can't support more than 1/4 of the table at a time. If split up to cover more, they become targets themselves. 5 assault marines are not enough of a threat to insure successful exploitation of a strike. basically he has too much meatsheild for the lascannons and no means of moving once in place without wasting the points spent on the lascannons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commissar Black Behemoth
My Tau list looks something like this, but changes slightly when determining point levels.

HQ:
Shas'O w/ Helios

Troops:
12 Fire Warriors w/ Shas'ui, Devilfish w/ Decoy Launchers
12 Fire Warriors w/ Shas'ui, Markerlight
12 Kroot

Elites:
6 Stealthsuits
1 Crisis Battlesuit w/ Fireknife
1 Crisis Battlesuit w/ Fireknife

Heavy Support:
1 Hammerhead w/ Railgun/Ion Cannon, Burst Cannons, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock/Disruption Pod
1 Broadside w/ Shield Generator
1 Broadside w/ Multi-Tracker

Against the marine list, how should I expose any weaknesses the list has?
Here are your weaknesses vs the SM army you described.

First the BS are going to die. Lascannon streangth is double toughness of BS, so the one with MT dies instantly. The other has 50% chance of instant kill. That makes a 1 wound character out of 90 pts!

Second you have many points tied up in units that are expendible. Tau in any form are about atritting the enemy points, not winning a field. Shas'ui and markerlight on a FW unit is the most expensive way to use a ml. And you dont have anything to mark for other than RG with BS4...Drop all 'ui and markerlights and use the points to buy more crisis with MP. You have 30pts right there. Next drop the FW sqds to 10, that's another 40pts. Drop 1 stealth suit since 15 and 18 give about the same results over time. That's another 30pts. Drop the fireknife config in favor of either TL PR or TLMP, I prefer MP for range.

already you have enough pts for 2 more TLMP crisis 'ui. Lastly, drop the disruption pod from the HH. You say ion and rail, so I suppose it means either or.

Third volume volume volume! You should be hitting 1 unit per turn with 4 to 5 shots per enemy figure in the unit. That is tough with large SM units, but he has plenty of other things that go away easy, as has been pointed out already.

Vindicators are LOS being 24". There isn't much they can do to your mobile forces, but you can out manuver and range him easy. If he is using his SM tac sqd as a sheild, then pie plate and FoF along with some MP all in 1 turn. You only have to kill 6 of them before they are non scoring. This can be done in 1 turn with VOLUME OF FIRE

Use kroot as bait to draw vindicators into killing zone for side armor shots from MP volume. 6 TL MP shots from 3 crisis will take him down or immmobilize him which is just as good since it has no turret and then limited to a 45 degree arc of fire. So a 5 glances and a 6 penitrates. you have a 50% chance of shutting his armor down every turn.

The speeder will avoid direct battle unless he is a fool, so hunt it with crisis teams. Use stealth to distract tac sqds from using lascannon on tanks.

I play a shooty SM army every week, so my experience is all I'm stating above. I'm not commenting on your current tactics, nor his. I'm just relaying those things I tell myself.
GL

Wanax
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