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Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 04:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

I have played tons of 500 point games against marines. And with Tau, I usually lose. Why? Because no matter how hard I try, they just won't fall. I cannot fit in a Devilfish because it is too expensive for such low points. But since Rhinos are so cheap, they can take one and be at my doorstep in a couple of turns, giving me no time to blow them away with the limited static forces I have. I know that in large point games I have enough firepower to make them fail saves and I also know that I have enough mobility to evade close combat. But in low point games, do Space Marines just have enough edges to give them a full advantage?
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 05:07   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

Not at all. Search the Tau board for battle reports Ive posted. You will see quite a number of them are against marines and at low points values. At 500 points I would have 2 small Devilfish squads and my Helios Shas'O. At 400 points combat patrol I have 2 mounted Firewarrior squads. Alternately you can take 3 suits and 24 Firewarriors even in very low point levels. It all depends on how you use them. The trick is to draw the enemy apart and use our advantage of speed and power. If you cant get the Firewarriors mobile then use them as a lure. Draw the enemy towards them and pounce with a few battlesuits and your HQ. If you can get them mobile hold back till the enemy is ripe for an attack and blitz them hard and fast at a narrow point, shove them back enough to claim objectives or simply keep them walking forward under fire. Sure marines may regroup but thats just so they can walk right back into the killing field again and do some more dying.

In low point games marines cant specialize that much as they can do in higher points levels. Which means in a straight out shoot or straight out assault they wont usually hold up. At higher points levels they can have a complex setup that needs to be picked apart with target priority but in small point games this isnt much of a problem.

I personally dont have much trouble with Tau at low points levels because the enemy hardly ever has enough anti tank to deal with 2 skimmers and then I have my Shas'O bouncing around raining death on anything and everything that foolishly tries to hinder my transports then I either setup a firebase and loose the fish on the enemy or surgically strike them. Either way when done right with either hybrid, static or mech Tau can bring a lot to bear at small points levels. You just have to know how to use it. Which in my experience revolves around fire magnets. The fish are fire magnets so even if I have a lot less Firewarriors the ones I have do more damage and take less hits. Even though I do have a few suits they will do the dying while my troops unleash volley after volley into the sidetracked enemy, etc.
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 05:11   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

It's actually a problem with any of the high point-per-model armies I find. Necrons, Marines, Chaos....all of them do very well in low point games with basic troops. Nids, Eldar, Dark Eldar and Orks do so-so but both Guard and Tau seem to suffer in smaller game sizes. i'm not entirely sure why this is for some.

I tend to apply to the idea that there is an 'ideal game size' the armies are designed for. At 1,500 to 2,000 seems to be where the strengths and weaknesses are best delt for all armies. The codex where really best balanced for this range of points values. the other idea is that we are just not use to the idea of fighting in such small games most times. Most of us fight battles in the range form 1,000 to 2,000 points because that is the range used at gaming nights and tournaments. Fighting in the range of 400 to 750 requires a diffrent stratagy than we are use to using. The fact that the basic troops for HPPM armies tend to be fairly robust gives them a bit of an advantage unless you know how to adapt.
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 05:26   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

No, i know another army that can eat Marines for breakfast in a small point game... And that is Eldar with freakin starcannons... Strength 6 ap 2, take ulthwe craftword, BS of 4, easy marine killing machie, and any other races. Eldar are quite cheap, they are made for one purpose, to kill Marines, but in return, eldar gets pawned by tyranids often, so no, Marines dont have advantage
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 06:08   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

Dark Eldar can seriously own in a low point game as well. If you use them correctly. Of course that applies to any army, really.

I don't think Marines "dominate" low point games. But their high stats certainly help them.
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 06:12   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

Just a point of clarification. I'm not saying other armies can't do well in small games. I am saying that taking the same stratagies from your larger games and using them in the smaller though doesn't work as well.
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 07:40   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

You need to change strategies in smaller games. Hoperfully you're opponent is bad at this.
But I would say that you have an advantage if you can field lot's of more troops then the marine player. I'm not to good at tau but a I belive a firewarrior can take out a rhino with luck? Enough fire warriors should be enogh then.. if he doesent use anythin heavier then a rhino. Load up on lot's and lot's of infantry.
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 13:51   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

Marines are often difficult to deal with at low point levels because they are so forgiving. With their high tougness, powerarmour and bolt guns marines (or chaos marines) can really put on the hurt while shrugging off a lot of fire. Since a lot of the really nice marine killing weapons aren't always readily accesible at low point levels they're power armour really shines.

Mix that in with a low point cost HQ who can still do some major damage in combat and they can be a real problem.

However for Tau the key to defeating Marines at low points is definitley mobility. Vash113 takes a very similar army to mine at a 500 point level.

The first game I played with my Tau was 500 points vs. Slanesh marines, who but out ridiculous amounts of firepower. Guy for guy I was outnumbered, but I managed to tie the game. It was lots of fun and were I to play the game again I'm confident I could win.

The army I used was:

1 Shas'el w/ fusion blaster, plasma rifle, multi tracker

10 Fire warriors w/ shas'ui, in devilfish with multi tracker, targeting array, decoy launchers

10 Fire warriors w/ shas'ui, in devilfish with multi tracker, targeting array, decoy launchers

This is an awesome 500 (503 :-[) point list.

It doesn't have huge numbers but its got lots of firepower. The two fish can both move 12" a turn and still pump out 3 Strength 5 shots (5 shots if the drones are still attached), and as long as they keep their fronts to the enemy and keep mobile they're really difficult to kill because at 500 points your opponent isn't going to have a lot of anti-tank weaponry.

Run circles around your enemy until one squad is isolated and then drop the two fish beside him, pop the firewarriors and unleash rapid fire death.

Use the Shas'el as bait, annoy your opponent by moving to withn 12" killing up to three marines and then flying behind cover. Draw squads off with him. If he dies its for the Greater good because he isn't a scoring unit.

Hope that advice hleps
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Old 17 Jan 2006, 15:57   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do Marines Dominate Low Point Games?

hehehehe Marines dominating in low point games. Thats a laugh and a half. I have never lost to a marine army in under 600pts. My Iron Warriors simply out gunned any and all opponents, and when I played a shooty Ork army, I actually wittled them down considerably before they reached assault...where they were horribly out numbered. In 500 points I was feilding almost 40 models. Even my friends 200pt+ Daemon Prince of Khorne could not withstand against them. Ironicaly he took out my warboss, then 16 Shoota Boyz killed the DP in one turn of combat....thats just too funny. But yeah, I find that my gaming style works a hell of a lot better in smaller games. When I use it in the larger games (700+) its usually turns out to be a draw, tho my win-loss ratio is pretty much 50/50.

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