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The True Weakness to Space Marines
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 00:34   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default The True Weakness to Space Marines

Is there an actual weakness to the general army that is Space Marines? A weakness in vanilla marines and in the chapters? If so, what is that weakness? I mean a weakness like how Tau have terrible close combat, Imperial Guard have terrible infantry armor saves, and how Orks have low BS. Is there even one?
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 00:38   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: The True Weakness to Space Marines

Numbers. There old weakness was inability to be specialized enough to be truly great at anything. 4th edition SM has made that a thing of the past. Now, it is simply numbers.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 00:58   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MikeH
Numbers. There old weakness was inability to be specialized enough to be truly great at anything. 4th edition SM has made that a thing of the past. Now, it is simply numbers.
Thats so true, i play with chaos and I see my codex and ask myself what can stop marines.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 01:07   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The True Weakness to Space Marines

So basically, they have no true weakness. Numbers are less in Necrons (18 points a model) and Grey Knights, so I wouldn't really call that a weakness.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 01:47   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The True Weakness to Space Marines

In the army build... no. They can do anything, and everything, and all at once when done right. They can take a lot of hurt and make horrible mistakes with only marginal reprocussions.

However what I find to be the marines weakness or the weakness they breed in their players is arrogance and laxity. The player becomes so sure that his units are so extremely durable that they make stupid mistakes and by the time they realize their army is being cut apart piece by piece its far too late and they are already dead.

Also there are so many options new players get lost in them and have trouble forming a cohesive list and end up being counter productive.

With the codex chapters this is differant. With the hap hazard tendancies of blood angels to charge forward it means heavy weapons that are not vehicle mounted are out so they are a very fast moving assault oriented force. The Black Templars (at least in my experience) relly on assault aswell however with their ability to move forward when getting shot they can suddenly find themselves out in the open in a hellstorm of fire that they really dont want to be in. Space Wolves are also very assaulty aswell but they lack the serious speed of other armies and so must use tanks and mechanization to achieve their goal or must bring fast bike units to buy time for foot sloggers. 13th company simply must get into assault and uses infiltration to do this but they are low on numbers and shooting power. Dark Angels are a very shooting oriented force and I have little experience with them and have not had an in depth look at their codex so I am not sure of much about them.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 02:02   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The True Weakness to Space Marines

Oh there are so many arrogant Space Marine players in my area who think that just because they play marines they will win. Would this be there undoing? If so, how would I use that to my advantage?
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 02:08   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The True Weakness to Space Marines

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Originally Posted by Commissar Black Behemoth
Oh there are so many arrogant Space Marine players in my area who think that just because they play marines they will win. Would this be there undoing? If so, how would I use that to my advantage?
i would say keep retreting and trying to get some kilsl wille your retriting and wen he thiks your cornerd, BAm, hit him hard and hit him bad (by retreting, you will make him think your loosing but actualy wille your retreting, your still moderatly ataaking his army and casing casualtys).
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 02:21   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The True Weakness to Space Marines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commissar Black Behemoth
Oh there are so many arrogant Space Marine players in my area who think that just because they play marines they will win. Would this be there undoing? If so, how would I use that to my advantage?
I find that they will do things that are too bold like throwing a land raider out in the open, a mass infantry charge or sticking dreads out in the open. Hold back for the first few turns using long range fire to pick apart the army, eliminating long range support and cutting down any fast forward elements or flankers while the mass of bulk of the army approaches. Then when your opponent is ripe for the picking go on the offencive and drive them back assaulting weakened targets or overwhelming with rapid fire and assault weapons. Despite the ATSKNF rule they are still falling back, keep them breaking, or dying, or both. Drive them farther back, the farther you drive and kill the more splintered they will become and any return tactics your opponent may have will be nutralized. For he no longer has any long range fire support to draw on to cover a formed retreat and regrouping or any fast flankers to come in for support. You pick him apart and before he knows it the army is broken and in tatters.

I hope that helps some.
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 03:28   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The True Weakness to Space Marines

I have made the ultimate anti marine killer, and you my fellow imperials can to. I line up 3 units of DH Stormtroopers in different bits of cover, but each has an overlapping kill zone (god help your opponent if they are stupid enough to go into the middle unit). Each unit has 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol, as well as a power sword. I fire a splattering of hell gun shots into big expensive Templars unit (as they are currently by far the most popular marine army here) to accelerate one infront of the others... then when he finds himself within 12 (even if I have to step out of cover) I rapid fire all my guns, unleashing between 12 (10 if you moved) and 18 (15 if you moved) plasma shots as well as between 14 and 21 hell gun shots. My DH In. tosses in a few more bolter shots, and maybe scourging. Wow. Suddenly that big expensive assault suad isn't looking so big or expensive. Its looking small and costly.

against static armies, repeat but with transports instead of cover. deploy behind terrain or 6 inches into it, then move 12 towards a nice fat target, pop smoke. The rapid fire rush him. In one game I lost a unit of GKs to a grey Hunter rapid fire rush, only for him to suffer a repeat of the same incident the next turn.

(I started out with chimeras but at late I've been getting much better results from rhinos)
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Old 08 Jan 2006, 03:41   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: The True Weakness to Space Marines

Thats all well and good until your plasma guns start blowing up in your face, which is what mine tend to do.
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