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Starting Black Templars
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Old 29 Nov 2005, 19:18   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Starting Black Templars

There are not that many Space Marine players on this board but it is a Tau board. I also know a lot of you are playing and wanting to play Black Templars so, I going to start a short and basic tactical set up on buying and starting up on the Black Templars.*

The Black Templar Space Marine Battleforce is the best one yet,even though I am not a fan of GW and their price hikes. I had recently purchased the Space Wolf Battleforce to beef up my Wolves and also purchased the regular marine box tactical box back when it was $30.00 for ten man unit. I have to say wow. You get the sprue for a regular unit and then two more of the BT extras. The box comes with a everything I really need to play, troops and a rhino. For the price, it really is a good bargin because purchased separating, you would spend over $110.00. I am buying two BF boxes.

My personal 1500 list and why I chose these. (mods I will hold back, but if I put in too much info plz edit)

This list assumes you have the Codex:BT

HQ
Emperor's Champion: EC with Up Hold The Honour of the Emperor 100 (mandatory)

For me this will work because I am going to be assaulting and won't need any cover, plus the Invulnerable save will work well

Now it is a tough choice between a Commander/Marshall and a Chaplin. The Marshall beat it out because of his high leadership. I will be able to roll with the Marshalls Ld in order to get the Righteous Zeal move.

Marshall- BP, PW, frag, Holy Hand grenade, and Combat Shield - 117(I like the Combat shield from a fluffy stand point, I don't think it will help much)

Chaplain- Reclusiarch add BP/Holy Grenade 106
I went with the cheaper one because he has the same number of attacks and the Master.

Elites
Sword Brethren will be sold in boxes of five. Not good, a squad of five men really don't have much staying power. 6 would be a better number plus much more of a threat. I feel the Best way to use them would be either Furious Charge or Infiltrate.

Infiltrate would work if they are packing a Melta gun and Powerfist
Furious Charge Lighting Claws PW and give these guys Terminator Honours, not the rest of the group, then they get expensive. They need to be a distraction/kill something small until the rest of your army gets there.

I have two lists I like, one with SB one without them.

I finish up later, as I need to get to work.

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Old 29 Nov 2005, 19:23   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting Black Templars

Uphold the Honour of The Emperor is one of my favourite Vows... in fact, it is my favourite vow! Good choice!

Don't underestimate that Combat Shield... I've learned to absolutely hate them because my opponents who bring them always save at least one wound, then kill me for my trouble.

The Chaplain is almost mandatory in a Templar list, if only from a fluff standpoint. Not much gear, but then he doesn't need it.

The Sword Brethren sound good, just be careful you don't go overkill with the wargear; too many toys make them an irresistable gun-magnet.
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Old 29 Nov 2005, 19:30   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting Black Templars

I'm right with you, WT.

Perosnally I took: (this is from memory, so I cannot say this is it exactly)

EC (can't remember vow)

Master of Sancitity, Term armor, holy grenade

2x Dreadnoughts, both with Las, one venerabel, the other Tank Hunter.

10x Iniate squad, one Power sword, one Meltagun, 5 CCW, 3 bolters. *Rhino Transport

10X Iniate squad, Power Axe, Meltagun, 8 CCW. *Land Raider Crusader trnasport.

5x Assault squad. *Power Fist.

Land Speeder Tornado. *Melta upgrade

Land Speeder Typhoon. *Melta upgrade

Total cost was just under 1500.
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Old 29 Nov 2005, 19:54   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting Black Templars

I am posting this to help other people but by all means guys post in your comments and corrections to my thinking.

If I get a chance at work I will take all my notes and lists and finish this off ???

Once I throw in my two lists, I need for you guys to tear them apart, I had been playing my Wolves as Codex Marines with traits to get a feel as to what might work, but I really won't know until I field the full Wrath of the Black Templars in a final list.

WT
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Old 30 Nov 2005, 21:36   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting Black Templars

Elites Continued

Sword Brethren Terminators of which you have the Shooty and non-shooty kind. So no real difference in the way they should be treated.

Except for the Assault Terminator- Due to the Righteous Zeal, this really makes the assault terminator a real threat, these now can be teleport in and if they start taking wounds, which they will. These guys will begin to move toward the enemy, giving them that extra movement to get into combat sooner. Seals may help them get there sooner.

Personal note- I never use Assault Terminators, they just tend to stand there and get shot up and then die. Playing the Wolves, I do add a lightning claw terminator in front just to cut costs and prevent a massive charge, but they main unit is very shooty with Assault Cannons blazing.


Sword Brethren- their guys are expensive, they can have a bolter or BP and CC weapon. I don't want to say that every list needs them, but they can help. Don't over equip them, because then they do become a point sink. I plan to use them sparing and just enough to get some type of mission done for me, whether it be tank killing, drawing fire from my main assault force or splitting my opponents forces, it looks like they could do it.*

How do I plan to use them? I am glad you asked. I plan to use them in two different ways.
Infiltrate *
I plan to use a six to seven man team, with Powerfist/Meltagun Powerfist guy is going to have TemiHons if there is some armor out there that needs to be killed. At seven men, this unit will be expensive in a 1000-point game; I would use them in a 1200 and up.

My Ideal unit would run about
Seven SB one PF/TemiHons/Combat shield, one Melta gun guy, 3 bp/cc guys 2 bolters. Infiltrate
153 Points not including seals

or

SB "Furious Assault" 7 to 8 men, large enough to take some casualties and still do damage.

Lightning Claw guy/TemiHons/Frag - PW guy/TemiHons/Frag/Combatshield BP/CC/Frag/TemiHons x 2 and the last two to three SB basic BP/CC/Frag*

Of course no LRC for these guys UNLESS you buy the heavy support Land Raider Crusader for them. Can you say FIRE MAGNET!!!

Troops
Initiate I and Neophytes- N Chaplin - C
I plan to use the Neos to their maximum in the Emperors Service. Something like this

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *N
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * N N N N
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *I* *I* *I* *I* this row could have a bolters and the Plasma or Meltagun
* * * * * * * * * * * * *C I* *I* *I* *I* C* this unit could have the PF/BP with the rest BP/CC
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *C

The Chaplin would be in any of the three spots so he could direct the unit. This unit is going to get shot up but hopefully the Neos will the only ones in range for the first turn so they get shot first and casualties removed from them first, leaving the main unit still ready to assault. Two 7-man units should support this fourteen-man unit.

For example-

5 Initiates 2 Neo ML Plasma gun* around 116 or so
5 Initiates 2 Neo Multi-Melta* Meltagun* * * * * * mmMMM my favorite tank killer


Money wise I am going to need two three boxes of scout troops, No shotguns for my guys unless I play Tau, IG, or some other light armor troops. So read up on your mixed armour rules and good luck.

Heavy Support* - There are a few changes to heavy support.

No devastator Squads or Whirlwinds
Whirlwinds are now blaspheme to have and no templar player should be/or have a stand and shoot army.

Can you have a shooty BT army, YES!
5 Initiates 2 Neo Multi-Melta* Meltagun* * * * * *

The rest are the regular Tanks and Land Raiders and Land Raider Crusaders that can be taken as heavy support. So, there is nothing really unique to the BT army.

Fast Attack
BT Assault squad same as Codex Marines except when it comes to adding a Storm Shield. Interesting losing one CC attack for a 4+ save. Well I guess you could have them in the front vs a very high Initive army.* *
And No Scout bike because they don't have scouts.

Well, I was thinking I was ready to post my list but I am not too sure, there really are so many possibilities that I feel there is no perfect list.

I will post up my favorite unit:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *N
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *N* *N* *N* *N* * CC weapons for these
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *I* * I* * I* * I* * *Plasma gun, Bolters
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *I* * I* * I* * I* * *CC/BP PF/BP
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * C* *cs* *cs



This unit gives me a 7 to 9 ratio of +4 to +3 save on armor. I figure the first few hits/wounds will take out my Initiates with bolters, the Next hits will go on the Neos, buying me time to move forward. The cs is the cenobyte servitors. This will help with movement and getting the extra Neos off the front because of the mixed armour rules. This unit will be 16 strong, that is a lot of wounds. I would like for someone to try this unit out and see how it works. An extra cs can be bought to bulk out the 4+ sv troops and to help movement! If you don't know what I mean by helping out with the movement, you need to buy the dex.

That is all for now, I will be working on my SB. I really feel this unit to be utterly expensive but can become either a minor threat used to slow your opponent or a Major threat with a lot of points sunk into it where, your opponent really must fear this unit. I think even my Tau would suffer from this unit, a full move toward my battle suits would really hurt and negate the JSJ movement. My Wolves would also have a hard time, dealing with such large units.


WT *
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Old 02 Dec 2005, 03:24   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting Black Templars

So Please any comments good or bad, post them. I put this up not only for BT players but for those facing them as well, that way you know what you will be facing. Let me know if I helped or should have just kept to myself or if you just don't care. I know I learn from my mistakes but I also learn from others as well.

WT
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Fear is the Mind Killer. Fear is the little Death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear and permit it to pass over me and through me.
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Old 02 Dec 2005, 03:54   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting Black Templars

No its deffinetly not a mistake. This is well compiled and thought out. Your doing a great job. Im just rather distracted at the moment and havent had the time to fully organize comments to do this justice. Excelent work though, keep it up.
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Old 22 Dec 2005, 21:57   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting Black Templars

Nice work . I collect a Black Templar army myself and it is very similar to yours
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Old 23 Dec 2005, 00:55   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting Black Templars

I am going to continue this thread instead of starting a new one.

Going back to the shooty BT army, I have come up with a Shooty Command Squad ( well about as shooty as a Black Templar Command Squad should be. Unfortunately, I still need to put it together but here is the set-up for my Command Squad I plan to have. I play against a lot of 3+ sv armies so I make use of Plasma.

I am not sure how this would do in a game, but I have tried Space Wolves Wolf Guard with an HQ and they work there.

Black Templar HQ will be Assault based because I plan to get into close combat, so this unit wont really be all shooting but can be.

2 x plasma guns These should do very well against any (insert enemy unit name here) units attempting to attack or slow this unit down.

(I would give these guys Meltaguns if I know for a fact I will be assaulting with them. Meltaguns are great but short ranged. If the unit is going to be give Infiltrate, I might give them Meltaguns just to take out some hidden armor)

1x Apothecary This guy should help absorb any wound not saved from enemy shooting or Plasma burns. So I plan to rapid fire the plasma as much as I can. I think this guy will easily pay for himself.

Close Combat guys are the order for the rest of the unit. I plan to watch out and not load them out too much because the unit then becomes too expensive and a big fire magnet. I dont know if any of you have played Witch Hunters or DH but the Orbital Nuke has taken out too many squads of mine so now I spread the points around. So losing this unit will hurt but it wont lose me the game.

I try not to make a very expensive unit, I try to spread out my points and make two dangerous units with other supporting units. This is my rule of thumb to about 1200 points, beyond this I change it to three units but I usually stick to two, three spreads out my forces.

Fighting Company Champion- Combat Shield, Power W, Bolt Pistol, Terminator Honors.

Sergeant- Teminator Honors, BP, PF,

2 x BP, CC weapon (these can be changed out for Bolters, because the HQ, Sgt., and the FCChampion will be doing most of the damage)


and from here, I will/can add two more guys with Bolters if they are walking/charging and they have been given Furious Charge.

If I give them Infiltrate, I will leave the unit as is, and will have to decide the function Melta or Plasma. Dont give them a Plasmagun and a meltagun, because now you have defeated the purpose of the unit which is to either take out heavy armored troops or a tank. I make my units with a set goal, this one still has a duel role but should still get the job done right.

Anyone disagree? Comments Please. I am trying to be a better Black Templar player, but will try to help others as well.

WT

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