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2000 point 13th company army
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 03:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default 2000 point 13th company army

I've been playing Marines for a grand total of about two weeks now, with 3 games under my belt. I'm starting to adjust to the 10 man army mentality required to play them, but I'm still looking for vast improvement. So if you guys would be willing to offer any critique on this army I would appreciate it. I think it's a decent list to begin with, but it could always be tighter eh?


Wolf Lord (HQ) @ 135 Pts [Leading Unit Below:]

* * *Bolt Pistol (x1); Frost Blade (x1)
* * *Belt of Russ
* * *Wolf Tooth Necklace
* * *Frag Grenades
* * *Wolf Pelt

9 Grey Slayers Pack (Troops) @ 209 Pts

* * *Bolter / CCW (x7); Meltagun (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

1 Rune Priest (HQ) @ 155 Pts - [Gating Unit Below:]
* * *Storm Shield (x1); Thunder Hammer (x1)
* * *Terminator Armour
* * *Chooser of the Slain
* * *Wolf Tooth Necklace

9 Grey Slayers Pack (Troops) @ 267 Pts
* * *Bolter / CCW (x6); Meltagun (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
* * * * Wolf Guard Pack Leader @ [79] Pts
* * * * * Power Fist (x1); Bolter
* * * * * Master Crafted Weapon
* * * * * Wolf Pelt
* * * * * Mark of the Wulfen

1 Wolf Priest (HQ) @ 131 Pts - [Leading Unit Below:]
* * *Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Weapon (x1); Iron Wolf Amulet
* * *Healing Potions & Balms
* * *Wolf Tooth Necklace
* * *Frag Grenades

9 Storm Claws Pack (Elites) @ 274 Pts
* * *Bolt Pistol & CCWep. (x6); Bolt Pistol / Power Fist (x2); Frag Grenades;
* * *Krak Grenades
* * * *Wolf Guard Pack Leader @ [76] Pts
* * * * * Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist (x1)
* * * * * Mark of the Wulfen
* * * * * Master Crafted Weapon

6 Grey Slayers Pack (Troops) @ 176 Pts
* * *Bolter / CCW (x5); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
* * * *Wolf Guard Pack Leader @ [71] Pts
* * * * * Power Weapon (x1); Bolter-Meltagun
* * * * * Mark of the Wulfen

15 Fenrisian Wolf Pack (Fast Attack) @ 150 Pts

15 Fenrisian Wolf Pack (Fast Attack) @ 150 Pts

15 Fenrisian Wolf Pack (Fast Attack) @ 150 Pts


5 Long Fang Pack (Heavy Support) @ 203 Pts
* * *Lascannon (x1); Missile Launcher (x3)
* * *Long Fang Pack Leader

Garbage? Winner? Mediocre? Let me have it.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 07:45   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

dunno about the number of wolves. i'm kinda in doubt of their ability, seeing as how the only time i tried them, they got chewed. IMO wulfen are much more points-efficient than these guys, especially when led by a wolf priest with herbs and balms to minimise injury

long fangs always do better in 2 smaller packs, than one large one (i use an all-rounder list, so i use one squad with heavy bolters and one with missile launchers)

i'd also be losing a mark of the wulfen off one of the pack leaders, and scournging an extra 10 points from somewhere to give your lord MotW. he's a hurricane with it ...oh, and master-crafting all those pack-leaders weapons?? IMO not really all that useful. so there's a good place to scrounge ten points from

all-in-all, i'd say solid, but could definitely use some improvement
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 18:44   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

The wolves can all scout up the field, and be on the front lines on the first turn. How did they get chewed exactly? I've had nothing but good results, ranging from glancing stationary vehicles with low armor to scouting behind terrain and jumping out first turn to lock up shooting squads.

I've played wulfen in all my games and they don't earn their points back. They are a cool unit, but all it takes is some missile launchers to eat up 24 point models that cannot pull double duty in the shooting phase unlike the rest of the army.

As for the fangs, i'm not sold on their ability alltogether, but I dont think 4 man weapon teams are a good idea. 5 is already pretty bad to begin with.

Now as for the mark on the leaders, the mark gets me killed. It's nice to generate on average 1.5 extra attacks a turn, but I have started to see a disturbing trend of allowing my enemies to hit me on 3's while I would be hitting them on 3s normally. I don't think the mark is worth it on characters who can be singled out, after watching powerfists and choppa's cut them to ribbons who would normally only hit on 4's. There is no way you can convince me otherwise, but I will listen to your advice regardless.

Now the mark on the wolf guard, that is where the real power is. I've watched them obliterate 4-7 models on a regular basis, because of the mark. And they have a huge squad around them. That is true power, not watching your hq get cutdown by weenies who have no business hitting him to begin with. Mastercrafting the powerfists is very much worth it. They are what win combat, even with hardcore elite units like these. a reroll with the mark means I have a 66% chance of adding another attack to the pool. I think that is 10 points well spent.

And while I disagree with you on the mastercrafting, I removed them to free up points to add another two models to my marine squad that isn't being lead by someone. 8 Space wolves is much uglier than 6 :P Plus I added two meltaguns to the last squad and shuffled around some nonessential upgrades.

Changes -1 to each wolf squad to put them at an even number
Removed mastercrafting from everything that had it
+2 marines to 6 man team, +2 meltaguns
Removed Wolf tooth necklace from Rune Priest, powerfists are usually clean up or punching vehicles so I don't think it's necessary - and I don't want my priest hammering vehicles with weapon skills - they should be punching me out before I punch them out.
Removed Bolters from wolf guard, added pistols. I forgot true grit gives you minus one attack on the charge. Not worth the extra 4 bolters I reckon.
Added Wolf pelts to everyone who didn't have them, and Wolf Talismans to the Lord and Wolf Priest.

Look better?




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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 07:52   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

I'm going to have to bring up the wolves as well. Their low save means they can't withstand even small arms fire with any great efficiency, and so you're paying a lot for meatshielding. I'd replace them with Bikers; tougher, better save, ranged weapons and Trubo Boost.
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 08:35   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
I'm going to have to bring up the wolves as well. Their low save means they can't withstand even small arms fire with any great efficiency, and so you're paying a lot for meatshielding. I'd replace them with Bikers; tougher, better save, ranged weapons and Trubo Boost.
The funny thing about the movement tricks of the 13th company is that you can funnel what exactly can shoot them at any given time. You don't need to "survive" small arms fire, because you should be in combat with the small arms fire at your leisure, using terrain until then.

You do realize that these 10 point wolves benefit from 'Thou shall know no fear', *Scout*, No matter the odds, and Counter Attack - right? Their low saves are largely unimportant because of the scout move, and their 4 toughness. I can line them up right in front of someones face, and then move over behind cover, or up to cover and limit what can see them first turn. Standard games of warhammer should have 25% terrain, and that is quite a bit. In a world of bolters, power weapons and starcannons, a 6+ save is just fine - attached to a 10 point assault marine with cavalry rules. It saves the lives of the wolves occasionally in combat, but you shouldn't be fighting a war of attrition with these units to begin with. They are also fast attack, so they come down last giving me a clear view of the weapons most likely to fire at them.

And 420 points is nothing to alleviate the stress of playing a very elite, model tight army. Bikes are big fat wastes of points, and only give your opponent something to zero in on with his anti tank weapons.
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Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 09:09   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

Scout? Where is that? Their entry just says "Cavalry".
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 09:11   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

Do you own the eye of terror or space wolf codex?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 09:23   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

Both, neither on hand.

However, I checked the Wolf entry this morning, and it said "Cavalry". Nothing more.

Ah, wait, there's an army special rule isn't there... forgot about that.

Personally, I like Bikes because of Turbo Boost; they soak up a pleasing amount of anti-tank fire, distracting enemy guns from more important targets. Despite playing plenty of low-save armies, I don't like fast-units without a good, solid, 3+ Armour Save. Sure, power weapons are their bane, but they are all but immune to standard attacks.
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 10:16   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

Turbo boosting with ground bikes is usually a bad idea. You can't cross terrain and you essentially have to go in a straight line, whereas jetbikes can ignore the stuff in between and achieve much more with their movement.

The entire 13th company army scouts, excluding terminator armor and bikes. Because of that, I think wolves are a steal and serve to stall the front line for a turn or two depending on how hard their target is. It's easy to keep them safe from fire, and then explode from behind cover and jump on some poor squad.

The way I look at it is, toughness and initiative wins combat in this game. Bikes are fast and tough, but are expensive so they ultimately become less and less efficient in a battle. Ground bikes also suffer from a lot of movement issues, despite their speed. I see no reason to play them in an army that can effectively start 17 inches away from the opponent, rather than 25. And for the points, wolves with a 4 toughness are a steal compared to the bikes that cost 36 points. I'd rather have someone need to wound 3, 4 toughness models than have to wound 1 toughness 5 model with a better save. You should always assume a powerfist or power weapon is going to be the determining factor in combat, so your save doesn't matter. And because of their cheap price and speed/movement tricks, they have the ability to take initiative and control the flow of battle versus other weenies, so they should be trading or beating other cheaper units.

So since you seem to excited about bikes, what would you rather throw at a squad with a powerfist in the middle? 5 bikes or 15 wolves, who actually cost 30 points cheaper respectively. 45 strength 4 attacks versus 15.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
Join the arena, and succumb to the eternal lust!
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Old 22 Nov 2005, 06:09   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 2000 point 13th company army

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDeth
The wolves can all scout up the field, and be on the front lines on the first turn. How did they get chewed exactly? I've had nothing but good results, ranging from glancing stationary vehicles with low armor to scouting behind terrain and jumping out first turn to lock up shooting squads.
i didn't get first turn?? so they got shot and when they acheived combat, they didn't have the numbers required. and when i did get first turn, they acheived combat, then didn't have the save to take any punishment back...and as opposed to things like nids and orks, i don't have the numbers to deal with that kinda thing

Quote:
I've played wulfen in all my games and they don't earn their points back. They are a cool unit, but all it takes is some missile launchers to eat up 24 point models that cannot pull double duty in the shooting phase unlike the rest of the army.
i've had them earn 3 times their points back...other times, they've just taken all the fire that woulda been directed elsewhere (people tend to have something of a phobia of wolfen)...and they pretty much always reach combat and kill enough to tip the balance...its not always about how much they kill. sometimes its about how much they let the rest of your army kill stuff

Quote:
As for the fangs, i'm not sold on their ability alltogether, but I dont think 4 man weapon teams are a good idea. 5 is already pretty bad to begin with.
two 3-4 man packs is considerably more survivable, and only a little more costly. now your opponent has to direct his fire in 2 directions, if he wants to deal with them. one 5-man pack just gets eaten by the first wave of heavy weapons fire or ordnance template

Quote:
Now as for the mark on the leaders, the mark gets me killed. It's nice to generate on average 1.5 extra attacks a turn, but I have started to see a disturbing trend of allowing my enemies to hit me on 3's while I would be hitting them on 3s normally. I don't think the mark is worth it on characters who can be singled out, after watching powerfists and choppa's cut them to ribbons who would normally only hit on 4's. There is no way you can convince me otherwise, but I will listen to your advice regardless.
the great thing about an HQ with the mark is he has enough attacks to pretty much eat anything within his kill-zone before it'll get to strike him. and in general, those things that have a higher initiative will either be in contact with your power-fists (advantage of hiding him in a squad), or won't be able to do near enough damage to drag him down

Quote:
Now the mark on the wolf guard, that is where the real power is. I've watched them obliterate 4-7 models on a regular basis, because of the mark. And they have a huge squad around them. That is true power, not watching your hq get cutdown by weenies who have no business hitting him to begin with. Mastercrafting the powerfists is very much worth it. They are what win combat, even with hardcore elite units like these. a reroll with the mark means I have a 66% chance of adding another attack to the pool. I think that is 10 points well spent.
i ony use the mark on my storm claws packs. i tend to find that my slayers don't spend enough time in combat to really get the most of it. my slayers spend as much time shooting as assaulting, so its really nothing massive for me to ditch it. as for master-crafting...i'd rather spend the points on another special weapon, another mark, or another body. all are far more useful

Quote:
Changes -1 to each wolf squad to put them at an even number
Removed mastercrafting from everything that had it
+2 marines to 6 man team, +2 meltaguns
Removed Wolf tooth necklace from Rune Priest, powerfists are usually clean up or punching vehicles so I don't think it's necessary - and I don't want my priest hammering vehicles with weapon skills - they should be punching me out before I punch them out.
Removed Bolters from wolf guard, added pistols. I forgot true grit gives you minus one attack on the charge. Not worth the extra 4 bolters I reckon.
Added Wolf pelts to everyone who didn't have them, and Wolf Talismans to the Lord and Wolf Priest.

changes arressed in order:
IMO an improvement
a worthwhile reshuffiling
. need i say more??
good thinking. i personally tend to be really restrictive with wolf-tooth necklaces. the space wolves have a really nice armoury, so its possible to do something stupid and just go crazy with it. not as bad as the chaos one, tho
hmmm...i personally like leaving the bolters on slayers pack leaders. extra shots are always good. besides which, if they receive a charge, they'll have the same number of attacks anyway. and if you have a wolf pelt, your opponent can have an unexpected surprise, discovering an extra power-fist attack...
also good changes...can't go wrong with pelts and tails. cheap and useful
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"I don't like coke, i just like the way it smells" Unknown

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