Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

SM Vehicle's
Closed Thread
Old 15 Oct 2005, 00:05   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Georgia
Posts: 218
Default SM Vehicle's

Just a few questions reguarding vehicle deployment...

Combat Bikes... besides getting across the board quickly what are they good for? I can't get the picture of a squad roaring across the battle field straight into a army of laughing machinegunners.

APC's, are they really that useful? Coming from the military myself I can't help but think of them as armor plated coffins.

Tanks and Heavy APC's, do they actually pull there weight? When I say this I mean it in a purely cash perspective... will saving myself 90+ dollars cripple my army in the high end battles?

Dread's, without ever touching one I already love them and plan on getting one for my collection if nothing else.. but I'd still like to hear the plus's and negatives to fielding them


Coming from battletech my opinion of vehicles is rather poor (that's inexperience talking and I know it) but I'd really like an insiders point of view on what each catagory of vehicle is good for. Along with that I'm kinda curious... what size army do you begin seeing vehicles at? Currently I can only field about 550 points worth of troops and thats if I go nuts with the wargear so after I get a few more matches under my belt I plan on fleshing out my forces. As always thanks in advance gents.
__________________
Also, after the game, find his mini case and dump the contents into a grinder/shredder and then put what's left into a shaker. It goes great on pasta, pizza, nachos, etc., just like all other forms of cheese. - xShaperx
Morgue is offline  
Old 15 Oct 2005, 00:32   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,716
Send a message via MSN to Spiritbw
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgue
Just a few questions reguarding vehicle deployment...

Combat Bikes... besides getting across the board quickly what are they good for? I can't get the picture of a squad roaring across the battle field straight into a army of laughing machinegunners.
Well, with these I have no experience. However looking at the rules for them I see the best use being for tying up other units like Heavy weapons teams, Dark Reapers, etc. basicly as a flanking and harrsing unit. With thier improved toughness and twin-linked bolters I can see them being murder against smaller enemy squads. Throw in a combat bike with a heavy weapona ndy ou got some good anti-armour or troop power, not bad if you want to set up a crossfire quickly I suppose.

Quote:
APC's, are they really that useful? Coming from the military myself I can't help but think of them as armor plated coffins.
For Marines I tend to agree. The only reason I can see for taking rhinos is for use as rolling cover for footslogging troops. Razorbacks are cheap, light tanks. However the restirction on squad size doesn't make them appealing to me.

Quote:
Tanks and Heavy APC's, do they actually pull there weight? When I say this I mean it in a purely cash perspective... will saving myself 90+ dollars cripple my army in the high end battles?
Honestly? Depends on how you play. For some they can be a good investment, for others a waste of plastic. Of all of them though I think the Demolisher and the Whirlwind get the highest marks all round from players of all types. Landraiders can be of use but they're generally best in bigger games where thier massive points cost doesn't eat up so much of the army.

Quote:
Dread's, without ever touching one I already love them and plan on getting one for my collection if nothing else.. but I'd still like to hear the plus's and negatives to fielding them
On the plus side, they are the summary of the marines as a vehicle. Depending on how you outfit them you can get them to fill any role. Just the standard DCCW and assualt cannon will let you wade through most troops and event ake down some vehicles with little problem.Need more firepower? Missile launcher and twin-linked lascannon will do it. It also doesn't get held up going through difficult terrain as it's a walker. On the downside, most know a Dread vcan be bad news and will attempt to kill it fairly quickly. It also isn't as fast as other vehicles instead keeping pace with the troops.


Quote:
Coming from battletech my opinion of vehicles is rather poor (that's inexperience talking and I know it) but I'd really like an insiders point of view on what each catagory of vehicle is good for. Along with that I'm kinda curious... what size army do you begin seeing vehicles at? Currently I can only field about 550 points worth of troops and thats if I go nuts with the wargear so after I get a few more matches under my belt I plan on fleshing out my forces. As always thanks in advance gents.
Vehciles of sorts usually start making appearnaces about the time you hit 1000 points. Usually about now you get a dread, couple of speeders, sometimes start seeing a tank or two or even someone bold enough to feild a landraider.
Spiritbw is offline  
Old 15 Oct 2005, 00:39   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,807
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

I had already typed this out before realizing Spiritbw had beat me to it, so I'll throw this in anyway with the disclaimer that he's played more than me, so I'll go with the cliche "What he said" if there's a gap in oppinion... that said, it looks like most of it is pretty simmilar.

Quote:
I can't get the picture of a squad roaring across the battle field straight into a army of laughing machinegunners.
Not many people laugh at Toughness 5, a 3+ Invulnerable Save, and (in the case of Attack Bikes) two wounds...

Quote:
APC's, are they really that useful? Coming from the military myself I can't help but think of them as armor plated coffins.
Oddly enough, Rhinos are actually much less durable than the troops they carry. *With that said, marine power armour means that even if all the APC does is get you 12" closer and then gets shot to shreds, it's still 12" less that you have to move on foot, and you should suffer few casualties in the process. *You can use them to protect your more vital squads (Command and Devestator) and just to be a cheap fire-absorbtion wall.

Quote:
Tanks and Heavy APC's, do they actually pull there weight? When I say this I mean it in a purely cash perspective... will saving myself 90+ dollars cripple my army in the high end battles?
By 'heavy APC', do you mean 'Land Raider'? *Marine tanks have respectable front armour, but should never be presented side-on to the enemy. *The Preadators are very powerful tanks that can dish out huge volumes of fire, the Vindicator is all about getting up-close-and-brutal, the Whirlwind is a thinking man's tank, and the Landraider... well, it's just a fething monstrosity. *Any of the tanks can be used to thrilling effect, and any of them can have all their guns silenced on turn one - it's luck of the draw, it's 40k.

Quote:
Dread's, without ever touching one I already love them and plan on getting one for my collection if nothing else.. but I'd still like to hear the plus's and negatives to fielding them
If you take a Dreadnaught, you have a major decision to make when purchasing him: *A shooter, an assaulter, or a combi-naught (lol?). *A shooting dreadnaught generally entails one set up with the rest of the army, packing twin lascannons and a missile launcher. *An assaulty dreadnaught generally has the standard assault cannon/dreadnaught close combat weapon combo, or a Multi-Melta/DCCW and Heavy Flamer. *The Drop Pod option is almost manditory, letting you smash the big guy straight into your opponents face. *The combo-dreadnaught is a crossover design, perhaps with Lascannon, DCCW, and Stormbolter, allowing it to set up with the rest of the army and give fire support, but to also be actually worth something in combat as well.
AuinMyrrath is offline  
Old 15 Oct 2005, 04:02   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Georgia
Posts: 218
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

Quote:
The Drop Pod option is almost manditory, letting you smash the big guy straight into your opponents face.
An option I had actually forgot all about, is there a "standard" Drop Pod mini I need to purchase ? If so who makes it? Or is this a home baked piece of the army?


Thanks both of you for the input, as I said I'm only looking for opinions. Army make up is almost always varied from player to player... in battletech I prefered using Medium Inner Sphere troops, and if you asked one of my friends about my choice in troops he'd laugh and point you to his army of Clanners.
__________________
Also, after the game, find his mini case and dump the contents into a grinder/shredder and then put what's left into a shaker. It goes great on pasta, pizza, nachos, etc., just like all other forms of cheese. - xShaperx
Morgue is offline  
Old 15 Oct 2005, 04:08   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,716
Send a message via MSN to Spiritbw
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgue
Quote:
The Drop Pod option is almost manditory, letting you smash the big guy straight into your opponents face.
An option I had actually forgot all about, is there a "standard" Drop Pod mini I need to purchase ? If so who makes it? Or is this a home baked piece of the army?
If your willing to shell out the bucks Forge World makes a model of the drop pod.* Most others though make use of home made varieties they themselves come up with.* A old CD makes a decent base for the record.

Quote:
Thanks both of you for the input, as I said I'm only looking for opinions. Army make up is almost always varied from player to player... in battletech I prefered using Medium Inner Sphere troops, and if you asked one of my friends about my choice in troops he'd laugh and point you to his army of Clanners.
* Very much the same here.* Thing is, not only do you have diffrent armies but you also have variations within the armies that are probably greater than you find most places.* The addition of the traits to many of the new codex are making it so even two armies from the same book are not the same.
Spiritbw is offline  
Old 15 Oct 2005, 05:30   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: cleveland oh
Posts: 496
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

I am still new to playing space marines. I have found that Rhinos are good for moving your infantry and nothing more. Still they are worth 50 pts. I have played a series of games with three dreads(two of them borrowed from another player), 2 with AC, DCCW,and SB and the third with twin linked laz cannons and the missile launcher. They were death incarnate and drew fire while my tactical squads got into position.
I plan to add 2 more dreads to my collection so that I can field three on a regular basis.
My army only uses 2 vehicles, both rhinos. Lack of mobility is the only drawback; you have to have a plan and see it through to the bloody conclusion. Having 2 tactical squads and a devistator squad that can infiltrate,Thanks to the trait rules, also helps a bit with the lack of mobility.
__________________
It is all fun and games until someone takes it too seriously
greensmurf is offline  
Old 15 Oct 2005, 12:25   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 414
Send a message via MSN to charn
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

First post! After reading this excellent forum I have finally decided to register. /off-topic

Anyway, it obviously depends on your style, but I find Rhinos are incredibly useful against gun-heavy, close combat fearing armies like IG and Tau. When equipped with smoke launchers and extra armour they can propel troops 12" in the first turn under the cover of smoke, drastically reducing the effect of high strength weapon fire against them and pretty much protecting the Space Marines inside (much needed protection against those nasty battlesuit plasma rifles IMO). Once the troops have disembarked, the Rhino can still pose a threat with an extra storm bolter and a hunter-killer missile.
charn is offline  
Old 15 Oct 2005, 17:08   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 1,492
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgue
Just a few questions reguarding vehicle deployment...

Combat Bikes... besides getting across the board quickly what are they good for? I can't get the picture of a squad roaring across the battle field straight into a army of laughing machinegunners.

APC's, are they really that useful? Coming from the military myself I can't help but think of them as armor plated coffins.

Tanks and Heavy APC's, do they actually pull there weight? When I say this I mean it in a purely cash perspective... will saving myself 90+ dollars cripple my army in the high end battles?

Dread's, without ever touching one I already love them and plan on getting one for my collection if nothing else.. but I'd still like to hear the plus's and negatives to fielding them


Coming from battletech my opinion of vehicles is rather poor (that's inexperience talking and I know it) but I'd really like an insiders point of view on what each catagory of vehicle is good for. Along with that I'm kinda curious... what size army do you begin seeing vehicles at? Currently I can only field about 550 points worth of troops and thats if I go nuts with the wargear so after I get a few more matches under my belt I plan on fleshing out my forces. As always thanks in advance gents.
Bikes are good for preventing heavy weapons squads from shooting by engaging then in hand to hand combat. Bikes are infantry, not vehicles.

APCs: Razorback is a LAV25, Rhino is an M113 (chimera's a bradley). Rhinos are nearly useless lately, they used to be good for getting across the field quickly. Now that you can't move the turn you get out of the track, they're too slow. Razorbacks are a cheap alternative to a "hang back and shoot" dreadnaught. You get a twinlinked lascannon with the same armor value for fewer points. It also gets shot at a little less than a terminator because it looks less threatening.

Tanks: The Predator with 3 lascannons (one of htem twinlinked) is death incarnate to other vehicles, while the version with autocannon and heavy bolters dishes horrible ammounts of infantry killing goodness.

The landraider is incredibly expensive, but very hard to kill, and allows its occupants to charge straight out of the front. Moving 12", popping smoke, moving 12" again, blasting away with anti-infantry weapons, getting out, and charging 6" with a boatload of terminators sporting lighting claws (and count as having frags!), all in two turns? The thought brings a tear to my eye.

The whirlwind...think MLRS, only not as strong. Area effect, not subject to counterfire? Not a bad deal.

There's that other tank, with the massive, short-ranged gun. Inferior to the IG equivalent both in capability and survivability. Wouldn't recommend it.

Dreadnaughts: Regardless of what role you assign them, take the "venerable" upgrade, they'll live longer. I only take one dreadnaught, I find they need cover to survive, and there isn't always enough to support multiple dreads.

Welcome to 40k!
__________________
Due to an error in translation, the isolated colony of T'ves'kal'dai mistakenly worshiped the greater goose for seven generations. Reeducation efforts continue.

Quote:
"Cheese for the cheese god! More wins for Pwn!"
march10k is offline  
Old 16 Oct 2005, 04:12   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,194
Send a message via AIM to Vash113 Send a message via Yahoo to Vash113
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

Well I dont play marines personally but I play them often enough to know their vehicles.

The rhino is in short mobile terrain. Use it as a battle tank and it will stink, use it as terrain and it rocks. It can make things bad for any opponent by sitting in the way of their LOS or blocking a door or path, etc. Plus sometimes it will last for a while and that storm bolter might do something, as a transport its somewhat good, just try and keep it behind cover if its transporting something good.

The Razorback is actually a pretty good and cheap tank. Use it as a transport for a command or veteran squad and it performs well enough to make back its points usually, its a cheap bit of anti armor and that cant hurt.

The Predator is a fine tank, it can either be a devastating anti infantry or armor vehicle and can do both. The outfit I find the nastiest is the Twin Lascannon and heavy bolter sponsons as this way it still fires both weapons when moving 6". Otherwise most of the Predators I face stay still and are sitting ducks for my guns. Its armor isnt too shabby either.

Ok I find Whirlwind just plain annoying, but this for you is a good thing. Indirect fire can be wonderfull, or utterly useless, it depends on your play style. A good tank, just keep it behind something nice and big.

Some people love the Vindicator with its Demolisher cannon but personally I kinda laugh at this thing. So slow and with such a short range I have little or no trouble just staying away from it entirely. You could use this tacticly to keep an opponent from going a certain way but this can usually be done better with something else.

The Landraider is a big menace. Good guns, exelent armor, transport capability, its a bloody good tank. The problem is the coste and some people have problems with the speed. Ive had opponents use this thing at 750 points and at 250 it takes a large chunk of those and my 180 point tank can kill it or keep it stunned pretty easily. In larger games it shines and getting a unit of terminators up close with out worrying about scattering from Deep Strike or advancing under fire is not something to laugh at. Besides it can draw a great deal of enemy fire which is not targeting the rest of your army, this can also be very usefull. The Landraider is great, just keep it to larger games.

The Dreadnaught... ok its a walker and ok I see an awefull lot of these and personally find them no trouble. My Shas'O and Hammerhead have each killed a fair few of these and they rarely cause much damage. Heck my brothers guardian defenders have killed Grey Knight dreads before. They are good versatile vehicles that used right can do a lot of damage but they have to be used right. As close combat units its best when the enemy is trying to get close too, against shooty enemies you will never get close. As long range support it also serves well but remember if you can shoot the enemy you can be shot too. As a venerable dread its a great deal better. If you use it I would suggest you use one and keep its weapons exchangeable, test it a few times and see where it fits into your list. It is a very cool looking thing.

All this from one who has fought far too many Space Marine tanks for his own liking. I hope this helps some.
__________________



Vash113 is offline  
Old 16 Oct 2005, 09:56   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Wolf-Tau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,426
Default Re: SM Vehicle's

Well, I guess I will put forth my two cents. I play Space Wolves and Tau, so not only do I play marines, I play against them as well.


Sorry Vash not picking on you but I like you views and wish to add my point as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113

The rhino is in short mobile terrain. Use it as a battle tank and it will stink, use it as terrain and it rocks. It can make things bad for any opponent by sitting in the way of their LOS or blocking a door or path, etc. . . A necessary evil here. Rhinos are needed to get you close into the enemy, if you want to get into close combat. One won't work-it's dead meat, two not bad, three ok now your talking. You just need to know how to use them, a tank in front of a rhino can help out,especially after it pops smoke. Also, I put three in line sometimes, Tank - rhino-tacticals- rhino-Assault troops. If the tacticals get popped, they can still be effective, while my assault guys, short range weapons, need to get more distance into enemy territory.


The Razorback is actually a pretty good and cheap tank. Use it as a transport for a command or veteran squad and it performs well enough to make back its points usually, its a cheap bit of anti armor and that cant hurt.

I don't like the Razorback, cool model though. The Razorback not worth the points, if you put some Lascannons on it, it will become target priority, plus with it's weak armor means it won't last long. Put some Heavy bolters and it won't be as threatening. 6 man squad, is not going to be strong enough to take too many casualties and remain effective. So I vote no on it.


The Predator is a fine tank, it can either be a devastating anti infantry or armor vehicle and can do both. The outfit I find the nastiest is the Twin Lascannon and heavy bolter sponsons as this way it still fires both weapons when moving 6".

These are great tanks but make it either a tank killer with Las cannons all around, or make it troop killer with autocannon and Hvy bolter sponsons.



Whirlwind just plain annoying, but this for you is a good thing. Indirect fire can be wonderfull, or utterly useless, it depends on your play style. A good tank, just keep it behind something nice and big.

These are very killer against certain armies. Tau, (did I say that) Nids, Guard. I wonder of two would be good against marines due to the number of saves they would have to roll?

The Landraider is a big menace. Good guns, excellent armor, transport capability, its a bloody good tank. right on the money

Very expensive tank, money wise and points wise. Be careful when you field it, it may win you the game or get destroyed first turn (Lascannon magnet) It all depends on the army you are playing. Tau, Railguns, Str 10 so a 50% to Glance not bad really. I would hold off on it, until you start playing around 1200 or so.
Dreds- These are great, AC / ML is lots or killing power with BS 5. Or make him cheapper and run it in front of your rhinos. I always take one, in a 1000 points, sometimes two, depends on how I am feeling.


WT


__________________
Long Time Space Wolf and Tau Player, played II, III, IV, and now V ed.
Armies Played, Black Templar, IG, Elysians, and Eldar. Tried Grey Hunters
Fear is the Mind Killer. Fear is the little Death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear and permit it to pass over me and through me.
Eldar Blog http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=59588.0
My Non-Breaking Flying base for http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=59730.0
Wolf-Tau is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can Psykers use their powers from a vehicle's Fire Point? davidgr33n The Inquisition 8 05 Feb 2008 00:34