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to mine or not to mine?
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Old 03 Oct 2005, 07:43   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default to mine or not to mine?

I have a game coming up this weekend, its the biggest I have played so far and at 2500 points its stretching my army. The worst news is it is against Nids. Last time we played it was a draw and I know my openent loves ripper swarms. I know that there is a distinct chance that I will be over ran by these little SOB's quite early and need to provide some speed bumps to slow things down so I can keep them under my bolters as long as possible. I thought of using scouts, but I found sniper rifles usefull against the big nids and lots of fire power (bolters.... lots and lots of bolters) against the smaller stuff. I did think of sewing the whole board with mines though from my whirlwinds, I have never used more than one in a game and never used the mines at all, so I would love some input about how effective they will be. I know they will be a prime target for his deep striike units, but there cheap enough.
Also, what upgrades would you guys suggest for them from the codex SM vehicle upgrades?
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Old 03 Oct 2005, 09:11   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

Personally I'd stick with the vengance missilles as opposed to the mines, they have a better APvalue and will therefore be able to wound his warriors without much trouble, also ignoring their armour saves. Sniper rifles are very useful against the bigger beasts, eg: Carnifexes because they only ever need a 4+ to wound, therefore these are extremely useful, also against the rippers I'd recommend template weapons as they take double wounds from them, and they normally ignore cover saves. For the basic troops just mass bolters, and I'd also recommend a Devastator Squad for the Tyrant etc, either that or a squad of assault Terminators with Lighning claws stood in cover.
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Old 03 Oct 2005, 16:39   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

You can take more than one scout squad, you know. I'd say take one sniper squad for the big'uns, three maxed out scout squads tooled up for assault (infiltrate for a shot appiece with the pistol, then pile in with the chainswords), two maxed tac squads with heavy bolters and flamers, two whirlwinds, a predator with maxed lascannons (to help the snipers with the big'uns). This is the core of your army. You have three scout squads infiltrated into terrain. Hopefully, they'll be able to charge out into the avenues of approach and clog them with melee, forcing the enemy to go through terrain to get around the melee, slowing him big-time. At the same time, the snipers and tank can shoot at the monstrous creatures stuck in the back, and the whirlwinds drop templates on the bunched up masses of tyranids. Anything leaking past the scouts meets 16 bolters, 2 heavy bolters, and a pair of flamers. Get a super-captain to keep the scouts from running as their numbers dwindle. If the scouts last till after his second movement phase, you've probably won. The points you have left after buying all this, I'd put into some assault cannon/flamer dreadnaughts. They're tough enough to fight a 'fex, yet have the firepower to mow down hordes.
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 11:15   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

This will only work if the 'Nids player doesn't put his big naties near the cover where the scouts are infiltrating, also I wouldn't recommend the Pred having maxed lascannons, too few shots, I'd go with turret mounted lascannon (twin-linked), heavy bolter sponsons and a pintle-mounted storm bolter, more shots are absolutely necessary against a horde army such as 'Nids. The dreadnaught is a good idea, but I wouldn't recommend the scout squads, stay as far back as possible, shoot as much as you can and then charge him before he charges you.

Also, I stand by my decision with the whirlwind, vengance missiles will waste most of his creatures and may even wound the big nasties if you're lucky enough, don't tatget them though, target the little things which are squished without a save.
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Oh come on, just because I'm carrying around the joy of killing your family, doesn't mean we still can't be friends.
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Ah, I'm minnie, meaning I'm sexy, badass, and will happily shoot you in the back.

Damn, I hope I don't get quoted calling myself sexy. :funny:
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Old 04 Oct 2005, 16:53   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

Now, that's just the worst idea yet! Dedicate your units to a purpose. The purpose of the tank is killing big'uns. the way you set it up, it's going to be less than idea for whatever task you give it. Either go with the AC/HB/SB, or 3LC.

As for the scouts, the enemy can only put his big'uns close to them if the big'uns in question can infiltrate. If he holds back the horde to let the carnies'n'such in his deployment zone clear out the scouts first, then they've served their purpose by delaying him, haven't they? Your purpose is not to put the scouts as close as possible to the enemy, but to put them where the fast-moving gribblies reach them forward of your lines...preferably on turn 1. If the enemy is foolish enough to put his big'uns where they get there first, they've loset IC protection (if they had it) and are that much easier to kill...with the small, fast horde bunched up behind their slow-moving selves....again, you've bought more shooting time.
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Old 05 Oct 2005, 17:18   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

Forget Sniper rifles. They cost too much and are too unreliable to kill a Carnifex due to their 2+/3+ saves - better to use Lascannons instead.

1 Sniper rifle = 0.84 hits = 0.42 wounds = 0.07/0.14 failed saves = 0.007/0.014 wounds per point
1 Lascannon = 0.66 hits = 0.55 wounds = 0.55 failed saves = 0.037 wound per point

Statistically far superior. Longer ranged as well.

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Old 05 Oct 2005, 19:57   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

The reason I like sniper rifles for the job is that my 6 man scout squads usualy have 5 and a missle launcher, plus I am a huge fan of pinning although it is of limited use against nids. I just wish I had 40 scouts and I would use 4 10 man squads of them, there hugely important in my chapters fluff and a great unit too.
The AP1 hit also helps out alot since it bypass's armour. Although its not often it happens with my dice rolls. I can roll great on saves, but on anything thing else the dice gods are fickle.

I always use las cannons in tac squads though.
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Old 05 Oct 2005, 23:27   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k
Now, that's just the worst idea yet!* Dedicate your units to a purpose.* The purpose of the tank is killing big'uns. the way you set it up, it's going to be less than idea for whatever task you give it.* Either go with the AC/HB/SB, or 3LC.
Not true. The tank will be able to do two jobs at the price of one. You don't need a ton of lascannons for a hoard army!.

Go Heavy Bolter strong. The AP will mean that almost all of those weak guys will go down fast, and will wound many in the hoard easily. I suggest a dev. squad of them, as they will pump out alot of firepower. Whirlwind Vengeance style is the way to go. Don't think about mines. With the Veng. you can lay waste to tons of 'Nids.

Use Missile Launchers instead of Lascannons. First you can use them to destroy anything big and scary, and then you can use frag type to help get rid of weaker creatures.

Flamers! Even if you have a heavy weapon, put a flamer in for when they get up close. They'll be very effective against rippers, as close numbers and their weakness rule will make them dissapear. Fast.

Well, good luck, and hopefully I've been able to help.
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 04:40   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

I hate the whirlwind, its a junky weak POS. Its easy to blow up its weapon is very weak. But that opinion is entirely based on the fact that 3 in 4 of my foes have power armor and many lasconnons.

But when I fight horde armies I offten pick a good point on the board, and cluster all my units there. If I hold up multiple squads at the same point I con consintrait fire on ememy sqauds, and I have to make sure that point has no terrain with in 18" of it. The plan is to force my ememy to run into the open, only able to send a few sqauds in at a time.

This plan works prety well, but the downside is if they make anything into CC your totaly farked, and infiltrators can mess you up.

Good luck.
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Old 06 Oct 2005, 09:23   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: to mine or not to mine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMR
Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k
Now, that's just the worst idea yet! Dedicate your units to a purpose. The purpose of the tank is killing big'uns. the way you set it up, it's going to be less than idea for whatever task you give it. Either go with the AC/HB/SB, or 3LC.
Not true. The tank will be able to do two jobs at the price of one. You don't need a ton of lascannons for a hoard army!
My point exactly, 3 shots a turn against a hoard army is virtually pointless, whereas up to 10 shots a turn will do a lot of damage to gaunt and 'stealer squads as well as warrior broods, also if they get lucky they can seriously harm a 'Fex/Tyrant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMR
Go Heavy Bolter strong. The AP will mean that almost all of those weak guys will go down fast, and will wound many in the hoard easily. I suggest a dev. squad of them, as they will pump out alot of firepower. Whirlwind Vengeance style is the way to go. Don't think about mines. With the Veng. you can lay waste to tons of 'Nids.

Use Missile Launchers instead of Lascannons. First you can use them to destroy anything big and scary, and then you can use frag type to help get rid of weaker creatures.

Flamers! Even if you have a heavy weapon, put a flamer in for when they get up close. They'll be very effective against rippers, as close numbers and their weakness rule will make them dissapear. Fast.
I agree with all of this advice, having played 'Nids for about a year I must agree that all of these exploit their weaknesses. With these wepons and upgrades you should be able to handle his army, just watch out for the broodlord infiltrating, DON'T let him reach your lines!!
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May the brave be remembered forever. Farewell our friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visuality (film)
Oh come on, just because I'm carrying around the joy of killing your family, doesn't mean we still can't be friends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kara Thrace
Ah, I'm minnie, meaning I'm sexy, badass, and will happily shoot you in the back.

Damn, I hope I don't get quoted calling myself sexy. :funny:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDemon
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to catch you.
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