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List experiments (#1)
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Old 14 Jun 2010, 23:27   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default List experiments (#1)

Ok, hi all

For awhile now, I've been threshing out lists of absurdly varying types (everything from gunline to mech to bike-based) across four codexes (vanilla, Blood Angels, and the two Inquisition codexes), and I think it's time to finally take a more...systematic approach to things. As such, over the next few weeks, and possibly months, I'll be exploring various different play-styles using the two marine codexes - I've unfortunately put all my Inquisition stuff on hold due to the upcoming update/retconning.

With the lists themselves, I'll mostly be trying them out on Vassal, although I'd like as much advice as people are willing to give me, whether on playstyle or composition; my physical collection tends to be more hobby-driven, so feel free to moan at me when you see projects appearing that have absolutely nothing to do with the current list posted here


Aaanyway, on with the lists.

Apollo 1-Alpha: Mech/Artillery

HQ- Captain - Bike, Hellfire Rounds, Relic Blade - 175 pts
Perhaps fairly expensive, this captain is nevertheless an incredibly good all-rounder, and should be able to hide behind the Rhinos to ensure he gets into combat. Chances are I'll either use him to pick off troop units, or to absorb attention and tie up a ranged target. I've considered swapping out the Relic Blade for a pair of lLightning Claws to allow him to chew through a greater number of models. Thoughts?

Heavy Support- 2x Thunderfire Cannon - 200 pts
Normally, I stay far away from artillery, as they just don't suit my style of tactics. However, it's worth pointing out that, in effect, the cannon itself only costs 25pts - the techmarine that comes with it would otherwise cost 75pts under elites. Having the techmarines around should also provide support when the pressure increases - the cannons will most likely fall apart at a glance, leaving me with a few extra flamers, plasma pistols and power attacks to throw around.

Predator - 60 pts
This one is mostly a points-fill. I found myself with 60 pts which I could do very little. If someone else could suggest a way of redistributing them, I'd be willing to listen. I've considered a dual-Heavy Flamer Landspeeder, and thought that I have enough templates already. It may appear in the next iteration of this list though.

Troops- Scout Squad, 6x man, Camo Cloaks - 106 pts
This squad is fairly standard, designed to sit in a ruin (with bolstered defences) and, generally, hold an objective and provide a little cover for the cannon. Think Eldar Pathfinders, if you will.

Tactical Squad - 10x man, Rhino, Melta Gun, Multi-Melta, Power Fist - 230 pts

Tactical Squad - 10x man, Rhino, Melta Gun, Multi-Melta, Power Fist - 230 pts
I may combat squad them, leaving the Multi-Melta behind (again, in bolstered ruins), or run them all together as an aggressive force. Another option is to swap in Missile Launchers to provide more versatility which, frankly, looks more appealing by the second.

So, that's the first list Thoughts?

EDITED: Can't count, had to drop the Missile Launcher.
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Old 17 Jun 2010, 21:44   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: List experiments (#1)

This looks good for 1000 points, however, i would argue a little heavy fisted. 1000pts are usually quite delicate, small lists.

I would argue that the captain has no place in this list, consider perhaps a master of the forge? a Conversion beamer would go very nicely with this list as well as tie up a nice fluff possibility. Man him up with a combat squad in a rhino and you have a potentially horrible squad that can go against monsterous creatures...
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Old 17 Jun 2010, 22:47   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: List experiments (#1)

Aha, a reply!

Thanks for the input Chris! Out of interest though, how do you mean 'heavy-fisted'?

I considered the Master of the Forge with Conversion Beamer on Bike (a.k.a. Bob), but I currently have very little oomph up close, hence why a hard-hitting captain with the speed to pick his fights was attractive. And yet, you're right on the fluff in that it would work better, andth would provide a very interesting conversion, which is what attracts me.

In terms of gaming, I'm open to either, as both have their places in the field (front or back) and I have units in both places already, so presumably there would be synergy in both. I'll sub in Motf... Bob in the next list, and see how it all works as more defensive.

Bob without a bike I don't think would work, as I have no space in my transports without losing a tenth member (and then the special and heavy weapons). In addition, I have the Thunderfires and Pred punching out quite a few high-strength shots a turn, as well as the Hellfire rounds with the Captain to deal with MCs.
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Old 18 Jun 2010, 09:25   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: List experiments (#1)

What i meant by 'Heavy fisted' was that it seems to be a lot of heavy equiptment for a small list... As i said, 1000 points is delicate, i normally go with a captain (Or librarian) with about 3 tactical squads and a dreadnought. This idea is a lot more versatile and can go for different options of war fare.

Where as your list seems to be aiming for a Heavy armoured fist attack. In that you seem to be expecting an armoured or at least MEQ opponents. As i say, perhaps consider dropping the predator for an attack bike with heavy bolter, and maybe swap out the rhino's for another... The mobile rhino's don't suit the static artillary approach.
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Old 18 Jun 2010, 11:46   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: List experiments (#1)

I agree that my list is more fixed in terms of strategy, but I'm not so sure that's necessarily a problem. Besides, everything bar the Thunderfires are fairly mobile, which should allow me *some* flexibility. Not as much as possible, but *some*.

In terms of what I aimed the list at, I didn't really focus on any one type. The Thunderfires themselves should be very effective against horde opponents, laying down 8 Str6 blasts a turn. That's also the reasoning behind all the melta - anti-horde is already covered, although anti-MEQ not so sure about...

The rhinos I plan to use fairly aggressively, so I'm a little wary of dropping them, as itdrastically decreases the threat range of the Tac squads.

In terms of getting rid of the Predator, it's an interesting proposition, but I'd be curious as to know why you think that would be a good step? To me, it just seems like a drop in A)survivability and B) (arguably) a drop in firepower.
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Old 18 Jun 2010, 13:14   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: List experiments (#1)

I agree that the predator has better survivability, but you also need to think that it is the only offensive armoured target, it is going to draw just about every anti tank weapon on the table at it in the first turn, then they will turn to the rhino's. An attack Bike is more inconspicous and can pack quite a punch with the TL bolter and the Heavy Bolter... And it costs a bit less that the basic predator...
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Old 18 Jun 2010, 15:12   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: List experiments (#1)

Well similarly, the Captain on the Bike will draw a lot of anti-tank fire in the form of say Lascannons of Railguns and since the +1 Toughness won't count against instant death, even Krak missiles can still instant kill. I fought against an opponent who had a captain by himself. He was instant killed by a railgun shot before he could get anywhere near my gunline. Although a bike will get him into combat faster, I doubt it's fast enough so that the enemy can't get at you. I would advise backing him up with a bike squad, but in 1000 points, that's quite expensive.

I like the scouts, I love fielding them with bolster defences (getting them that 2+ cover save!). Only thing with that is that I'd advise to look out for template weapons. I've never fielded Thunderfires before although your justification of two has actually made me interested. Tactical squads are also good, nothing I'd really change about that. Maybe drive the Rhinoes down the flanks to force the enemy to choose which one to go for? I also agree with Chris on the idea of a Master of the Forge. One with a Conversion Beamer is only 120 points and can bulk up your gun-line a bit (although with 2 Thunderfires, that's probably already done).

Still, the best way to iron out the problems in a list is to actually test it. The Captain on the Bike could maybe work out well if you play him right...
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Old 18 Jun 2010, 20:24   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: List experiments (#1)

@Chris: The predator is indeed the main threat (or will be seen as such), but if that keeps the fire off my transports and artillery, so much the better, especially at AV13. However, I'd be interested in what you'd make of the spare points gained in replacing the predator with the attack bike.

@Harlequin2: I agree that insta-killing will be an issue, but I'll just hope to hide him behind either cover or the Rhinos, and then either tie up ranged units or deal heavy damage to troops. Think of him more as a scalpel, or skirmisher. Bob is certainly interesting, and he will most likely be in the next list iteration. As regards testing, I'm just waiting to hear back from a friend about organising a game
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Old 20 Jun 2010, 18:16   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: List experiments (#1)

I would also consider dropping the scout squad (What are they armed with in the first place?) They seem to have little role on the army, with those combined points (along with the dropped predator) i would suggest either getting 3 attack bikes or an assault squad...

1) The Attack Bikes will provide a strong fire base putting out a stagering 9 S5 shots, and 3 s4 TL shots, that alone would make a squad of GEQ, OEQ or even MEQ squads reconsider running at it, Now, if you use these bikes as an escort for yourcaptain on the bike, not only can they act as tough wound bags, but they will add the support to the captain, while he makes into combat, the attack bikes can 'form a perimetre' and prevent him getting bogged down.

2) The assault squad will provide a strong, unit that will be able to counter charge anuthing that threatens your tactical squads. They can work in tandem with the captain in thinning the enemies ranks, or if equipped correctly, they can do a small spot of tank hunting.

Hope i have helped!
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