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Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 02:21   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

RUNIC RUIN


HEADQUARTERS
Rune Priest – 140

Space Marine Bike, Melta Bombs
Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller


Rune Priest – 150
Space Marine Bike, Melta Bombs Wolftooth Necklace
Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning


Rune Priest – 140
Space Marine Bike, Melta Bombs, Wolf Tail Talisman
Jaws of the World Wolf, Murderous Hurricane


Rune Priest – 150
Space Marine Bike, Melta Bombs, Saga of the Beastslayer
Jaws of the World Wolf, Tempest’s Wrath


TROOPS
15 Blood Claws – 365

1 upg Lukas the Trickster
[MOUNTED IN LRC]


10 Blood Claws – 205
1 w/Meltagun
Drop Pod w/Deathwind Missile Launcher


ELITES
5 Wolf Scouts – 115
1 w/Meltagun
2 w/Plasma Pistols


FAST ATTACK
10 Swiftclaw Biker Pack – 325
1 w/Meltagun
1 w/Powerfist
1 Attack Bike w/Multi-melta
[JOINED BY EVERY RUNE PRIEST]



HEAVY SUPPORT
Land Raider Crusader – 260
Multi-melta


TOTAL POINTS: 1850



Designer's Notes:
I discovered today through the Space Wolf FAQ that Storm Caller provides cover saves to friendly units, not squads (5+ cover save Land Raider Crusader anyone?). Also that Lukas' Last Laugh works on vehicles (even Titans!).



... Call me crazy. Not the friendliest army list I ever made, but there's plenty of weaknesses to balance it all out... right?

And uh, oh yeah... take this Jetbike Council/Nob Bikers! [birch-slaps!]
__________________
If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 04:04   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

I think you have WAY too much faith in your Rune Priests. Sure, JotWW is good, but there ARE better things. Defensive grenades will mess this list up, because without the +2 attacks for charging with the Bloodclaws, they kind of suck. I honestly don't know how this is 1850...
__________________
VS Droids: W24/L24/T10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Hopefully, my country's customs don't mistake the Genestealer model as being totally made out of cocaine...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneguard
At least a 5th one, so you can launch a legal squad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droids_Rule
shtlk, I honestly editted instead of posting a reply with a quote. Sorry, Goliath. Trying to figure out these mod abilities.
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 04:41   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

I don't care for this list. You've got all of your eggs in one basket. If that one Swiftclaw unit gets locked your Priests are in for it.

I've run a similar list, mostly because Goliath wanted me to destroy his low initiative Death Guard, and packed in 4 Jaws Rune Priests. Unlike your list, however, each one had its own unit. I stuck with Grey Hunters simply because I like them but the same could be done with any list. It worked very well as it didn't give the enemy many places to hide; I had Jaws all over the board. I think you'll be much better off spreading your Priests around rather than going for one death star unit that's not even that good outside of 4 Jaws.

Furthermore, you're going to be using Jaws on one unit 4 times. Sure you're guaranteed to kill it, especially when you assault whatever remains, but then you're sitting there with your pants down for counter-assaulters to show up and wipe you.
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 05:14   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiveFleetGoliath
Defensive grenades will mess this list up, because without the +2 attacks for charging with the Bloodclaws, they kind of suck. I honestly don't know how this is 1850...
If the opponent had Defense Grenades, 10 Blood Claws still get 30 attacks on the charge (-1 if you've got a special weapon I suppose). And you play Chaos Space Marine Nurgle. You seem to forget you're the only army that carries defensive grenades that is ok in combat. It's like being afraid my opponents will spam Strength 10, AP:1 weapons, only Tau can do that reliably. Defensive grenades are fairly rare considering the span of Warhammer 40,000.

Against everyone else, it's 40 attacks from 10 models.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HiveFleetGoliath
I think you have WAY too much faith in your Rune Priests. Sure, JotWW is good, but there ARE better things.
Like what exactly? For the points. I'm not fielding 4 Rune Priests because I think they'll win me every single game. Think beyond CSM. Think... oh I don't know, 3 Carnifexes for instance, a Tervigon, and a heap of Gaunts all getting hit 4 times with that. I kill a single Monstrous Creature and I make points back in an instant.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapter Master Seth
I don't care for this list. You've got all of your eggs in one basket. If that one Swiftclaw unit gets locked your Priests are in for it.

I've run a similar list, mostly because Goliath wanted me to destroy his low initiative Death Guard, and packed in 4 Jaws Rune Priests. Unlike your list, however, each one had its own unit. I stuck with Grey Hunters simply because I like them but the same could be done with any list. It worked very well as it didn't give the enemy many places to hide; I had Jaws all over the board. I think you'll be much better off spreading your Priests around rather than going for one death star unit that's not even that good outside of 4 Jaws.

Furthermore, you're going to be using Jaws on one unit 4 times. Sure you're guaranteed to kill it, especially when you assault whatever remains, but then you're sitting there with your pants down for counter-assaulters to show up and wipe you.


How about if I remove the bike from one Rune Priest, give him Saga of the Hunter, and have him join with the Wolf Scouts (remove bike)? Then take another, remove his bike, and stick him with the 15 Blood Claws and transfer Lukas to the Drop Pod?


The reason I liked the Rune Priests on bikes was because they all have, don't forget, Toughness 5 and all the perks that come with a bike (turbo-boost, move 12" then charge 6"). I also figured that mentioning Nob Bikers and Jetbike Council would give a hint at the cheese I'm aiming to fighting against.

JoWW is only ok it seems to me because it's a one-shot deal against models, not units. Do it 4 times, at a safe distance on a Bike, and force everything else that moves as quickly or more quickly than you to move through dangerous terrain.

I've got Murderous Hurricane and Living Lightning against the mobs too.



Oh yeah, I have been told that BS is not required, so once the power casts, just lay down the line.
__________________
If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 05:26   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Marksman
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiveFleetGoliath
Defensive grenades will mess this list up, because without the +2 attacks for charging with the Bloodclaws, they kind of suck. I honestly don't know how this is 1850...
If the opponent had Defense Grenades, 10 Blood Claws still get 30 attacks on the charge (-1 if you've got a special weapon I suppose). And you play Chaos Space Marine Nurgle. You seem to forget you're the only army that carries defensive grenades that is ok in combat. It's like being afraid my opponents will spam Strength 10, AP:1 weapons, only Tau can do that reliably. Defensive grenades are fairly rare considering the span of Warhammer 40,000.

Against everyone else, it's 40 attacks from 10 models.
I'm not talking about my army. If you ever come across ANY sort of Defensive Gernades, you are only getting 20 attacks. You don't get ANY extra attacks from charging, not just -1. Also, Vindicators. S10 Ordinance. Bye bye Landraider. Vendettas with Lascannons, Predators with Lascannons. Deepstriking Ironclads. Against armies with good AT, those Raiders will go pop, merely for the fact that there really isn't anything to shoot at thats worth their time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HiveFleetGoliath
I think you have WAY too much faith in your Rune Priests. Sure, JotWW is good, but there ARE better things.
Like what exactly? For the points. I'm not fielding 4 Rune Priests because I think they'll win me every single game. Think beyond CSM. Think... oh I don't know, 3 Carnifexes for instance, a Tervigon, and a heap of Gaunts all getting hit 4 times with that. I kill a single Monstrous Creature and I make points back in an instant.[/quote]
I'm not thinking about CSM. I'm thinking: Well, that unit has 4 JotWWs. I think I'll throw some scarabs (Necrons) at it and keep it tied up... forever. Or: Hey look, 4 JotWWs, I think I'll throw 30 boyz at it. Or: Hey lock, 4 JotWW, too bad my Genestealers are Int 6, and My Tyrant is int 5+1 for being an MC, and my Zoanthropes have a 3+ invul.
__________________
VS Droids: W24/L24/T10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Hopefully, my country's customs don't mistake the Genestealer model as being totally made out of cocaine...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneguard
At least a 5th one, so you can launch a legal squad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droids_Rule
shtlk, I honestly editted instead of posting a reply with a quote. Sorry, Goliath. Trying to figure out these mod abilities.
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 13:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

Points are noted, but you forget that there is only one army type that I would be concerned with taking defensive grenades, and that's Nurgle. The only other army that has defensive grenades is Tau. After that, it's an extremely rare sight. Eldar, Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters, Space Marines (any of them), Tyranids, every other Chaos type, Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard, Orks, Necrons... none of those armies have defensive grenades or the option to take them; the exceptions are extremely rare. In fact, there's less than 12 units in the entire game that carry defensive grenades.


Another thing, Bikers Marines are Biker Marines. 30 Ork Boys aren't going to cut it if I'm staying away (not that hard on a Bike), and in total there's 19 T:5 wounds. Even if they did, this is how it would go:

Rune Priests go first. 12 attacks, hit on 3s, wound on 4s, 4 Orks die. Bikers go next with , killing 6.46 Orks (total 10 on average).

Orks attack, and assuming all remaining 20 can attack (40 total), hit on 4, wound on 5s, Orks kill total 2.22.

Space Wolves win by 8. Orks must pass Leadership on double 1s. If they fail, they're getting run down against Int: 4 (versus their Int: 2).




I can see Necron Scarabs or winged Rippers doing some work, but I still have Counter-attack and two hand weapons on every model in the unit, 12 attacks which can inflict Instant Death on the first round.


10 Scarab bases attack. They have to take dangerous terrain tests to get there (losing 1.66 wounds before the combat begins), and assuming they weren't shot by the Bikes (which could probably kill them all in one salvo, JotWW doesn't allow any kind of save, not even cover or Invuls). Not to mention Murderous Hurricane.

Rune Priests go first, inflicting 5.33 wounds. Bikes go next, inflicting 11.49 wounds for a total of 16.82, or 5.6 bases.

5 Scarab Bases attack, inflicting .56 wounds. Scarabs lose combat by 15, and being Fearless must make 15 armor saves to No Retreat, losing another 12 wounds (or 3 bases).


Next round of combat, there's 2 Scarab bases left.





Oh, I'm scared! An Ironclad Dreadnought! I simply don't have enough melta weapons to take care of it!
__________________
If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 13:15   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

Comparing a unit of over 900 points to a single Boy mob isn't very fair. This has to be looked at from a battle-wide perspective. You have a single unit that can move swiftly and has 4 Jaws in it, very scary to be sure. But it's just one unit. And that always present problems, many of which have been covered in your other SW thread. You're just putting a lot of faith into one unit which is still just 3+ saves, albeit T5 which is nice. It can get tied up, and likely destroyed in melee combat with any melee-oriented unit which make it there.
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 14:20   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapter Master Seth
Comparing a unit of over 900 points to a single Boy mob isn't very fair. This has to be looked at from a battle-wide perspective. You have a single unit that can move swiftly and has 4 Jaws in it, very scary to be sure. But it's just one unit. And that always present problems, many of which have been covered in your other SW thread. You're just putting a lot of faith into one unit which is still just 3+ saves, albeit T5 which is nice. It can get tied up, and likely destroyed in melee combat with any melee-oriented unit which make it there.

Sure, but it was Goliath saying that he'll just charge in 30 Orks or 10 Scarab Swarms and that's the end of it. It'll take a lot more than that to take care of it. Obviously by the math, that isn't true.
__________________
If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 14:26   #9 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

This list is going to fail against [Mechanized] Eldar [which is played by a good Eldar player].
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Old 03 Mar 2010, 21:04   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Runic Ruin [Space Wolves - 1850]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Marksman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapter Master Seth
Comparing a unit of over 900 points to a single Boy mob isn't very fair. This has to be looked at from a battle-wide perspective. You have a single unit that can move swiftly and has 4 Jaws in it, very scary to be sure. But it's just one unit. And that always present problems, many of which have been covered in your other SW thread. You're just putting a lot of faith into one unit which is still just 3+ saves, albeit T5 which is nice. It can get tied up, and likely destroyed in melee combat with any melee-oriented unit which make it there.

Sure, but it was Goliath saying that he'll just charge in 30 Orks or 10 Scarab Swarms and that's the end of it. It'll take a lot more than that to take care of it. Obviously by the math, that isn't true.
You have neglected to take shooting into account. You can field a LOT of AP3 and less weaponry in an army. With "all of your eggs in one basket", losing that one unit means end of the game for you.

I said Ironclads to get the point across that when you plop down 2 Raiders and that unit of bikers, The Raiders are going to take a lot of heavy fire.
__________________
VS Droids: W24/L24/T10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Hopefully, my country's customs don't mistake the Genestealer model as being totally made out of cocaine...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneguard
At least a 5th one, so you can launch a legal squad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droids_Rule
shtlk, I honestly editted instead of posting a reply with a quote. Sorry, Goliath. Trying to figure out these mod abilities.
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