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Elite-ish 1750 pts Space Marines - is this alright enough?
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Old 01 Dec 2009, 22:19   #1 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Elite-ish 1750 pts Space Marines - is this alright enough?

Well, without further ado, here's my list.

HQ
1.Captain
Artificier armour
Relic Blade
meltabomb
Storm Shield
Bike

total: 200 pts

2. Chaplain
Terminator Armour
Storm Bolter
Meltabomb

total :135 pts

Elites
1. Assault Terminators
4 Thunder Hammers
3 lightning claws

Dedicated transport: Land Raider Crusader with multi-melta and extra armour upgrade

total: 540 pts

2. Terminators squad
4 x terminators
1 x Assault cannon

total: 230 pts

Troops
1. Biker squad
Sergeant with power fist and meltabombs
2x bikers with meltaguns
5 x bikers
1 x attack bike with multi-melta

total: 315 pts

2.Biker squad
Sergeant with power fist and meltabombs
2x bikers with meltaguns
5 x bikers
1 x attack bike with multi-melta

total: 315 pts

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Quote:
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Old 02 Dec 2009, 07:06   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Elite-ish 1750 pts Space Marines - is this alright enough?

If you're doing more than a single squad of bikes or so, go all bikes (imho). The big advantage bikes give is massive speed. When you take that out of other parts of your list, you either tie yourself to the slow elements or allow your opponent to choose what he fights.

Your captain is decent at close combat, so why not try to get him there? A properly outfitted command squad on bikes can mess up a whole lot of things and is a pain to kill. TH/SS termies are still great, but it's just a suggestion (dropping the second termie squad and the chaplain is enough to get a well-kitted command squad). Of course, at this point, you're once again getting close to all bikes.

Your list isn't bad. There's no real wasted upgrades anywhere and every unit can deal with multiple threats. What I'm wondering about is how you plan on having the army work together and how you plan on keeping things alive. At 1750, a single land raider isn't hard to take down and then you get back to the problem I mentioned earlier: you either need to keep your fast elements around the slower ones to assist them, or break off and allow your opponent to dictate the battle. Above 1500, I'd say you're generally better off running dual raiders. If you're not prepared for that, you better be prepared to walk in at least some of your games.
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5th edition stats (W/D/L)
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Old 02 Dec 2009, 23:34   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Elite-ish 1750 pts Space Marines - is this alright enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyguy832
If you're doing more than a single squad of bikes or so, go all bikes (imho). The big advantage bikes give is massive speed. When you take that out of other parts of your list, you either tie yourself to the slow elements or allow your opponent to choose what he fights.
Well, I do not want to go into the trap where the opponent puts something on top of a building and my bikes can't do shtlk in contesting it, let alone capturing the objective. At least with the termies I can do something to even the odds.

Quote:
Your captain is decent at close combat, so why not try to get him there? A properly outfitted command squad on bikes can mess up a whole lot of things and is a pain to kill. TH/SS termies are still great, but it's just a suggestion (dropping the second termie squad and the chaplain is enough to get a well-kitted command squad). Of course, at this point, you're once again getting close to all bikes.
Command squad on bikes is even more expensive than a squad of termies, and for their size, they ain't doing much to anything. Hardly a pain anywhere, but a sacrificial unit. 3+ armour to multiple shots of nothing even at T5 is something you can call as somewhat measly for a kitted out command squad. But the idea is there for me, provided I make it that the command squad is attached to a biker chaplain and also the captain. Could be an alternative, but not something I would like to invest into.

Generally if that's the cause I should be taking something that's will not suffer the drawbacks of a bike charging into cover and generally only has one way of working around it, rather than having two units that can give me more flexibility and allow for me to handle some things that a normal biker army could not handle (like contesting objectives on tall buildings) and making my terminators squad do better in what they do (chaplain).

The captain will be attached to a biker squad if needed, but his Skilled rider ability should allow for him to be there first to tie units as my terminators or bikers come in to finish the job. He is survivable enough for me to be confident that he will be hanging around for at least two turns. In the overall picture of the army, he is actually one of my most disposable unit, right next to the shooting terminators.

Quote:
Your list isn't bad. There's no real wasted upgrades anywhere and every unit can deal with multiple threats. What I'm wondering about is how you plan on having the army work together and how you plan on keeping things alive. At 1750, a single land raider isn't hard to take down and then you get back to the problem I mentioned earlier: you either need to keep your fast elements around the slower ones to assist them, or break off and allow your opponent to dictate the battle. Above 1500, I'd say you're generally better off running dual raiders. If you're not prepared for that, you better be prepared to walk in at least some of your games.
Dual raiders are nice, but not as flexible due to their size and the general disappearance of scoring units like flies (Rhino troops are fine, but for one single special weapon and a heavy weapon that will not get a chance to fire, and maybe a combiweapon in the sergeant, I would have more bang for my buck with the bikers) and one land raider is easier to hide amongst the terrain. If there's a lack of terrain, I will use a technique I call cover save madness to compensate (which I will explain when I reach the Assault Termies section).

The bikers are there to take out tanks and draw the opponent as mobile bait. That's all there is to it, as they are not meant to charge, but they are armed to a certain extend to take on things if the worst comes to worst (meltabombs for LRs or walkers). Nonetheless, since they are my troop choices, they do have the role of being my objective takers.

Normal shooty terminators are there to take out barrage weapons, and generally be a pain behind enemy lines and divert attention away so that the others may do their job well enough. If they are still alive, well that's a boon for me with more shots, and maybe a charge into a terrain with troops on the objective.

Assault termies are just there to take out scoring units and take them out when they decided to come close enough. If it is Capture and Control, well I generally will be more aggressive and make the bikers as moving cover saves with the land raider to slam into the objective (a biker squad is more than enough to cover a land raider's hull by 50%,I did the measurements already and thus eligible to give my land raider cover saves (also another reason why I chose bikers as they can give others and themselves cover saves). Multiple charges with Biker captain and assault termies are a given, but the biker captain is there to annoy people.

I kinda give my opponent a few things to think about before they allow themselves to choose their battles, as I will catch up to them in more ways than one. The lone land raider will be alright for my list as the Land raider is there for fear purposes, and would kinda make my opponent worry, especially when turbobosting bikers are around wreaking havoc and also providing cover saves for the land raider whenever it is in open grounds (one squad is more than enough for this). Add that with teleporting termies, and you generally got a refined scalpel that is more flexible than a dual (or triple land raider army) or an all-biker army.

Notice also the fact that almost everyone will get an alternate save, either as a default (as with the case of the terminators and HQs) or as a result of a certain action I take with the unit such as turboboosting to get cover saves. In addition, since bikers are large enough, they can provide cover saves to the land raider whenever the land raider is forced to go into open grounds, and while they do so, they tend to turboboost to give themselves cover saves. Then I can also switch the battlefields instantly due to my mobility.

In a way it is not "The Best of" space marines, but it can take my opponent off guard enough to do my trickery.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emlyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by FT
They're an insane bunch of reptiles...
I wasn't asking about the moderating staff.
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Old 03 Dec 2009, 02:53   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Elite-ish 1750 pts Space Marines - is this alright enough?

Fair enough to all your points, seems as though you have a decent idea on how you want the army to play. I disagree somewhat on the capabilities of the command squad, but that's really personal preference.

Your army list at first glance seems somewhat scattered, ergo the comments I made. Seems like it would be interesting to play, though.
__________________
Quote:
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Do It! ;D
5th edition stats (W/D/L)
Deathwing: 14/6/3
Tau: 5/0/3
Blood Angels (NEW): 10/1/3
Blood Angels (OLD): 27/5/10
Eldar: 10/0/1
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Old 03 Dec 2009, 04:48   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Elite-ish 1750 pts Space Marines - is this alright enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyguy832
Fair enough to all your points, seems as though you have a decent idea on how you want the army to play. I disagree somewhat on the capabilities of the command squad, but that's really personal preference.

Your army list at first glance seems somewhat scattered, ergo the comments I made. Seems like it would be interesting to play, though.
Weaknesses I have in regards to this list would be horde and infantry, but hopefully my assault termies can weather then out enough along with the raider and the rapid firing of all my twin-linked bolters on the bikes.

Nonetheless, I will try to see if there are improvements to make on the list.
__________________
Guide to keeping:
Scorpions : Corn Snakes : Basilisks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emlyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by FT
They're an insane bunch of reptiles...
I wasn't asking about the moderating staff.
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Old 03 Dec 2009, 05:21   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Elite-ish 1750 pts Space Marines - is this alright enough?

Your bikes and raider are fast enough to concentrate on one portion of a horde at a time. Play a refused flank and you'll do fine against them. Your termies should be able to help there. Remember to use your speed to pick your battles.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo The Brave
Crazy Guy, you are very disturbing...

Do It! ;D
5th edition stats (W/D/L)
Deathwing: 14/6/3
Tau: 5/0/3
Blood Angels (NEW): 10/1/3
Blood Angels (OLD): 27/5/10
Eldar: 10/0/1
Death Guard: 1/0/0
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