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Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!
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Old 29 Aug 2009, 04:11   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Default Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

Hey, so I've been interested in Deathwing for a while, so I've decided to use it in a one-off game with a friend tomorrow and see where it goes. I was originally just interested in Deathwing, but I'm seeing that it's less effective than using other units. I'm thinking 1000 points, and I'm still 320 points off of that so I'm looking for some ideas. Right now I'm thinking either Dev Squads or a Dread for Anti-Tank, or a Ravenwing Attack squad and some more Termies.

[hr]

HQ

Belial
Banner
Apothecary
185 points

Troops

Deathwing Squad
1 Chainfist
2 w/Lightning Claws
Cyclone Launcher
245 points

Deathwing Squad
1 Chainfist
Assault Cannon
250 points

SUBTOTAL 680

LEFT 320
[hr]

So my questions are:
How should I equip Belial/What squad should I put him in?
Are my squads correctly balanced/How should I equip them?
What should I do with the rest of the points?

Thanks for taking a look, I'm hoping I'll get some replies in the next 15 or so hours before the game! [sub]Otherwise I'm on my own...[/sub]
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Originally Posted by Circus, HARLEQUIN OF TAU 0NLINE!
That makes far too much sense to be used in 40k
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Old 29 Aug 2009, 04:35   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

Well Belial is best with two lighting claws just because he can get the extra attack but whatever lay out you like is fine. I like to remain fluffy and have him with a strom bolter and master crafted power weapon.

The banner and Apothecary upgrade goes to a termie squad by the way.
Your lay out seems fine to me but I am assuming you will be deepstriking? If so you should make your squad that is held in reserve complement your other squad.

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Old 29 Aug 2009, 05:56   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

Might be worth taking a Dreadnought. Deathwing often need a little help taking out vehicles.
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Old 29 Aug 2009, 06:11   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

drop the chainfists. in 5th ed infantry hit rear armour, so unless you're fighting land raiders they're not needed. throw in a hellfire dread with t/l las and a missile launcher for anti-tank support, and be sure to include some Ravenwing for those all-important teleport homers. a maxed out squad with a flamer and melta split into two combat squads gives you a pair of very fast, special weapon-toting flanking units.

i suggest keeping Belial with storm bolter and sword; put him in a squad with an assault cannon and one pair of lightning claws and have them deep strike. drop the lightning claws from the missile launcher squad - the more firepower the better, as Belial's squad will be the frontline unit and your shooty terminators will be providing fire support.

good luck.
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Old 29 Aug 2009, 07:24   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

Thanks guys, the advice all sounds good. I'll update in a few hours in the morning and let you know how the game goes sometime tomorrow.

EDIT

Okay, now that it's morning I've gone through the suggestions and added some things:

HQ

Belial
130 points

Elites

Dread
Venerable
Missile Launcher
TL-Lascannon
175 points

Troops

Deathwing Squad
Cyclone Launcher
240 points

Deathwing Squad
1 W/Lightning Claws
Assault Cannon
Banner
Apothecary
300 points

Fast Attack

Ravenwing Attack Squad
120 points

965 Points

[hr]

So that leaves me with 45 points left. Would it be worth it to get a Drop Pod for the Dread, or should I load up the Ravenwing Squad with some goodies? I'm leaning towards a couple of flamers, a power weapon, and Melta Bombs on the RA squad.

Thanks Again
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Originally Posted by Circus, HARLEQUIN OF TAU 0NLINE!
That makes far too much sense to be used in 40k
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 00:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

You should upgrade the Ravenwing squad so they can harm infantry. I also disagree with Cap'n Arny McGrath regarding chainfists. For a 5 point upgrade, you make the squad more complex for wound allocation, scares walkers and Land Raiders. As it stands you would be hard pressed to hurt a Land Raider or soul grinder.

I second Belial with the pair of lightning claws, as it makes him dangerous in close combat at the expense of weak shooting.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 03:16   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

Well, my friend had something come up, so now I've got more time to look at options. I'm thinking about taking 1 chainfist for each squad, since I have enough points for the upgrade and it won't hurt.

I'm still not sure on how to equip Belial, since I'm still figuring out whether it would be better to add more shooting or if it would be better to have some more CC power.

Also, for future notice is it worth the cost to kit out a similar squad for Belial to roll with? IE a squad with a lot of LCs if Belial's got LCs, etc?

Thanks!
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Originally Posted by Circus, HARLEQUIN OF TAU 0NLINE!
That makes far too much sense to be used in 40k
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 04:27   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

I personally think that Deathwing are best in the shooty configuration, as they still have the old storm shields and they can lay down a respectable amount of anti-infantry fire with their stormbolters. I think the only loyalist Terminators that should consider lightning claws would be Black Templar, as they can take furious charge. Otherwise power fists should be plenty good for close combat.

Belial on the other hand has a lot of attacks and a high WS, so he should be equipped for CC in my opinion.
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Old 30 Aug 2009, 05:48   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

Right-o, then, time for some advice! ;D

Chainfists are mandatory for Deathwing terminator squads in my opinion. The first time you get stuck in combat with an Ironcald or Soul Grinder, you'll be beyond happy you spent those points. I can't count the number of times a chainfist has saved my butt (I can, however, estimate the number of times I've glanced rear armour 10 with a chainfist... about 1/6 of the time ;D). They're too cheap not to take, really.

Second, Cyclones are weaksauce. If we had access to the new SM cyclones, they'd be useful. As is, drop it. An assault cannon is so much better against every armour value and infantry it's not even funny.

Overall, Deathwing works best as a shooty army. Don't underestimate their close combat abilities, however. That 2+ save will carry you through most attacks if you get the charge and your fists will do major damage. That said, if combat is likely, get the charge! You don't have enough attacks to afford to take the charge against most cc enemies (orks, berzekers, etc.).

Personally, I run Belial as shooty (but that's what my entire army is geared for). Either standard loadout is good or twin-LCs. Don't bother giving lightning claws to an entire unit of termies unless you give them a raider, however. You will never see combat against a skilled opponent with walking cc-termies and your army's overall effectiveness will be lessened. Like I mentioned earlier, Deathwing really do function best as a shoot army with a strong close combat backup. And lightning claws are free for DWT's anyways, by the way.

Don't underestimate the storm bolter. A 5-man termie squad with an assault cannon will put a dent in just about anything you point it at. Add that up over an entire army and you've got a literal gold mine of firepower. Remember that the strength of deathwing's shooting is the fact that you can move 6" and shoot. That is the key to playing Deathwing. If you've never read "The Way of the Water Warrior," look it up. Lots of good advice.

As another piece of advice: don't mix your squads. While it may seem good for wound allocation purposes, don't dilute your firepower by adding in a pair of lightning claws for a SB/PF termie. I've never felt the need for it, and I always stack low-AP wounds on the sergeant anyways.

While I'm not as experienced with ravenwing, I'd reccomend 2 meltas for mobile tank-busting (something your termies lack).
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Old 31 Aug 2009, 19:49   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Dark Angel/Deathwing list- Help Needed!

Heya there, just responding to your PM

Before we get started, here are just a few points that I think are important to keep in mind...
  • Because of our low model count, you will need all of the fire power you can take. This means equip Belial with SB/SoS and equip all of your Terminators with Storm Bolters. Why? Although the Deathwing may be good in assault, they are not a horde army and thus cannot sustain wounds and deaths like a regular army could. Stomping across the battlefield without trading shots with the enemy is a surefire way to get yourself into a pickle. Deep striking is a valid argument for mixing squads but there is simply too much at risk. A single scatter could spell doom for you battle plans as a single squad could make up 1/4 of you entire force. As explained in my tactica, Deathwing function the best when you use them as primarily a firebase army, trading shots with enemy, unless of course, you opponent is Tau...
  • I would personally scrap your Ravenwing squad and put some serious thought into augmenting your list with a Land Raider. Mechanized Assault Lists are the mainstay of the Deathwing. Plus, there are 5 Land Raider variants out there, so you can customize your army to meet nearly every need. A Crusader would be best, if you can get the points needed.
  • Scrap all Cyclones and replace 'em with Assault Cannons
  • In regards to Anti-Tank, Assault Cannons can penetrate Armor 14. However, if you feel like you are lacking in this regard, get a Dreadnought.

Just a few ideas...
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