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1750pt Tournament List, Help Needed!
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Old 18 May 2009, 09:17   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: York, England
Posts: 353
Default 1750pt Tournament List, Help Needed!

I am looking to start playing in some tournaments soon, and I was hoping that I could get some constructive criticism from some experienced tournament players as this is my first attempt at a 5th Ed competitive list. The army itself is my Red Scorpions 2nd company and this is a quick summery of their recent history.

The Red Scorpions 2nd company have just returned from deep within the wilderness space know as the Ordon Rift in Segmentum Tempestus, to re-equip and acquire replacement manpower after fighting a large Tyranid splinter fleet. The 2nd company won many battle honours during this campaign, but was badly mauled during the fighting with only around 20% of their original manpower remaining. It is thanks to the highly advanced medical facilities and the large number of apothecaries that all Red Scorpion companies boast that this many survived at all. Upon their return most of these battle hardened survivors were rewarded for their strength and courage by being inducted into the chapters 1st company. Some of these warriors became squad Sgt's in the new reinforced 2nd company, the rest were allowed to stay attached to the company forming an elite core of veterans. These veterans had learned valuable lesson's when fighting the Tyranid’s, and due to this they usually equip themselves as sternguard knowing that even the larger Tyranid creatures can fall to disciplined bolter fire. This experience has also left its mark on the 2nd company's combat doctrine, they found that constantly giving ground and counter attacking the swarms was not always an effective tactic. Instead they started to identify and if need be build strong defensive positions and hold them until they had driven off the attackers or until they themselves fell (when this situation arose the last few survivors would form a bodyguard for the apothecaries carrying the wounded and recovered geneseed, and be evacuated to safety by thunderhawk). This new fighting style was passed on to the newer recruits and the 2nd company is quickly building a reputation for stubborn resistance even in the most dire of circumstances.



Red Scorpions 2nd Company

HQ

Commander Luka Raziel, Master of the Fleet
(*Counts as Pedro Kantor)
175pts

Chaplain Dalan Rael
(*Counts as Chaplain Cassius)
125pts

Elites

Sternguard Squad (10 men)
Bolters (standard equipment)
250pts

Razorback
TL Heavy Bolters
40pts

Sternguard Squad (5 men)
2x missile Launchers
135pts

Razorback
TL Heavy Bolters
40pts

Troops

Tactical Squad (10 men)
Sgt- Bolt Pistol + CCW
1x Plasma gun
1x Plasma Cannon
185pts

Tactical Squad (10 men)
Sgt- Bolter + Bolt Pistol
1x Plasma Gun
1x Lascannon
190pts

Scout Squad (10 men)
Sgt- Bolt Pistol, CCW, Melta Bomb
Bolt Pistols + CCW’s
145pts

Fast Attack

Assault Squad (10 men)
Sgt- Power Fist + Bolt Pistol
2x Flamers
235pts

Assault Squad (10 men)
Sgt- Power Weapon + Bolt Pistol + Melta Bomb
2x Flamers
230pts

Heavy Support

NONE

Total pts- 1750
Scoring units- 9
Kill Points- 11
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Old 18 May 2009, 14:54   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 377
Default Re: 1750pt Tournament List, Help Needed!

Might as well get a jump pack chaplain to accompany your assault squad. Cassius can't keep up with them and he would be a waste leading sternguard into assault.

I personally believe it is a waste giving sternguard heavy weapons because they lose their special ammunition and their bolters go to waste against armoured targets. If you are dead set on the missile launchers in the 5 man squad, get them a Rhino so they can fire from inside.

Lastly, I feel this list has no credible threats to Land Raiders or Leman Russ tanks.
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Old 18 May 2009, 16:57   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: York, England
Posts: 353
Default Re: 1750pt Tournament List, Help Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFury
Might as well get a jump pack chaplain to accompany your assault squad. Cassius can't keep up with them and he would be a waste leading sternguard into assault.
I would normally take a jump pack chaplain but I decided to include Cassius for a few reasons.

1. He fits my fluff well
2. He's very hard to shift off an objective, or good for tying units up due to his high T and FNP!
3. He is quite flexable as he has both bolt pistol + Crozius for the extra attack AND a decent ranged weapon (normal chaplains have bolter or pistol).
4. He has a good ranged weapon (Infernus is a master-crafted combi flamer with hellfire rounds). He hits on 3's with a re-roll, always wounds on 2's with an AP of 5 and the option to use it as a flamer once per game (that's not bad).

How I plan to use him varies on who and what I am facing, but having him join a unit of sternguard is an idea that I have played with. He can assist with their shooting with his hellfire shells and any opponent will think twice about assaulting the unit with him in it (especially if they are in Kantor's inspiring presence range of 12" for the extra +1 attack), if I do need him to launch an assault he can always leave the unit and do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFury
I personally believe it is a waste giving sternguard heavy weapons because they lose their special ammunition and their bolters go to waste against armoured targets. If you are dead set on the missile launchers in the 5 man squad, get them a Rhino so they can fire from inside.
This unit is the one that i am not to sure about, but for the points available there isn't an attractive alternative. I am also generally not a big fan of giving sternguard heavy weapons, but the reason that I am looking to give them a try is that they fill a small hole in my list. They give me a relatively cheap unit with 2 heavy weapons that is also a scoring unit. They will generally be used to assist with hunting AV10-13 tanks etc in vehicle heavy lists but their ability to take on infantry at range and MC's are their main tasks (the missile launcher's long range is what's useful and at a closer range the other 3 marines can join in with their special ammunition). Against MC's the missile launcher will generally still wound on a 2 but due to its good AP it will ignore most creatures armour save.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFury
Lastly, I feel this list has no credible threats to Land Raiders or Leman Russ tanks.
There aren't a lot but there are some. I have the lascannon in the tactical squad and also meltabombs on one of the assault squads and the scout squad (which will outflank in 99% of games) as well as the power fist in the second assault squad, I can even use Kantors orbital bombardment if necessary as that's str 10! Land Raiders may be a bit of a problem but I don't see to much trouble with Russ's as my fast moving assault squads can get into combat with them on turn 2 and krak grenades are good against rear AV 10!



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Old 18 May 2009, 22:21   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 377
Default Re: 1750pt Tournament List, Help Needed!

Considering that your sternguard are Stubborn and Ld 9, I don't think that Cassius adds much. Yes, he's hard to kill, but he is only decent in close combat and your sternguard should probably be shooting most of the time anyway. On the other hand, it might work out having a fearless scoring unit.

Against Land Raiders, you put your hopes in stopping it with a single lascannon, and maybe a meltabomb (that will hit on 6s if your opponent knows what he's doing). Or getting lucky with an orbital bombardment (about 33-40% chance to get a hit). I am not very comfortable putting my hopes into low probability units.

Against Leman Russ tanks, yes you could get a charge on them in theory on turn 2, but you only have one assault squad, so they will get shot to pieces. If your opponent is canny, he will shield them with Chimeras or an infantry squad to get an extra turn of shooting against you. If he brings a Psyker Battle Squad, he will break them on turn 1 if he only inflicts 3 casualties on them. In my opinion, it is the assault squad that would benefit from the Chaplain's Fearless and to hit reroll on the charge.

What do you think?
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Old 19 May 2009, 09:17   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: York, England
Posts: 353
Default Re: 1750pt Tournament List, Help Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFury
Against Leman Russ tanks, yes you could get a charge on them in theory on turn 2, but you only have one assault squad, so they will get shot to pieces. If your opponent is canny, he will shield them with Chimeras or an infantry squad to get an extra turn of shooting against you. If he brings a Psyker Battle Squad, he will break them on turn 1 if he only inflicts 3 casualties on them. In my opinion, it is the assault squad that would benefit from the Chaplain's Fearless and to hit reroll on the charge.

What do you think?
I actually have two assault squads and an outflanking scout squad all of which could get a charge on turn 2! In this situation the two razorbacks would probably provide mobile cover for the assault squads on turn 1 minimising the casualties they receive. As for Land Raider I admit that they will be a problem but i can't see how to counter them effectively unless I spend a large amount of points. I didn't want to go overboard spending points ensuring that I can pop a Raider in 1 or 2 turns as I don't see many of them used, and spamming lascannons is going to put me at a big disadvantage against hordes. How often do Land Raiders appear at tournaments? I think that I will try to find a marine player who has one for a test game!

Thanks for the feedback, please keep it coming!
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Old 19 May 2009, 15:00   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1750pt Tournament List, Help Needed!

Oops, you do have 2 assault squads after all. You also could replace the plasma guns in the tactical squads with meltaguns to keep Land Raiders honest. Tell us how your playtesting goes.
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Old 03 Jun 2009, 11:22   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1750pt Tournament List, Help Needed!

Right I have had a few games now to test out the list, and its not done to badly. I have also briefly logged how the 2 units that I am still unsure about have done (Cassius+ small sternguard unit).

1st game- Annihilation Vs Eldar (WIN)

This was close during the first few turns, but was a fairly comfortable win in the end. My small sternguard unit did fairly well taking down a wraithlord with a combination of krak missiles and hellfire rounds, and destroyed a couple of war walkers. Cassius shot down a jetbike with his hellfire rounds, wiped out an outflanking scorpion unit with help from a tactical squad and held up Asurmen for the last turn of the game.

2nd game- Capture and control Vs Marines (WIN)

This was a tight game which would of have ended in a draw if it wasn't for my outflanking scouts. I was cursing these guys early on as they refused to appear, but when they did eventually turn up (turn 5) they assaulted the tactical squad holding my opponents objective and held on to contest it. My opponent had a Land Raider Redeemer (with a 5 man assault terminator squad and chaplain inside) so this was my first big test against a vehicle with a rear AV14. I used Kantors orbital barrage to target the LR first and although it scattered I rolled a double 1 giving me a direct hit whilst my lascannon missed completely. Unfortunately for me I rolled a further 1 for my penetration but I did kill 2 assault marines that were stood next to it. I did manage to immobilise it on my second turn (with the lascannon) and after that I pretty much ignored it as most of its weapons were out of range. My small sternguard unit didn't have a great game as the LR was his only vehicle and he obviously didn't have any MC's. They spent their time sniping the units around his objective with the bolter guys using the longer range of their kraken bolts to help out, before they were killed off by an assault squad (their kill tally was 4 tactical and 2 assault marines). Cassius took out 3 assault marines (2 combat, 1 shooting) before charging into the remains of the terminator assault squad (chaplain + 2 terminators). He managed over 2 turns to kill both the terminators and then the chaplain but was killed off at the same time.

3rd game- Seize Ground Vs Guard (LOST)

I got a bit of a kicking in this game, it was a mechanised list including 3 Russ's but the chimera's were used as Bunker's instead of for their mobility (until late game). The big problem I had in this game (appart from some poor rolling) was the large amount of AV12 vehicles, the Russ's were dealt with quite well by my scouts and assault squads but I didn't have enough firepower/assault troops to quickly deal with the large amount of armour. His list was built to take on marine's, and multiple vet squads with plasma guns and autocannons firing out of chimera's were ruining my day. I did manage to cause some decent damage after getting to grips with him but I was short on units to claim objectives late in the game. My small sternguard unit did well this game destroying 2 chimera's and a handful of guardsmen and vets before they were eventually brought down. Cassius didn't kill anything but did take a god awful amount of firepower before he was eventually brought down, this allowed my other squads to survive a while longer so it wasn't a bad thing (I lost count of the number of autocannon shots that bounced off him)!
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