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1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]
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Old 14 Nov 2008, 00:50   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Default 1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]

Hey, after some short notice I realised I may be able to sneak into a tournament on the 22nd. 1500 points, 8 players, and a $100 prize to the winner! I fancy myself as a pretty good 40k player, so figured I might be able to pull off a win here. I would want to bring my Templars, the main army I'm focussing on right now... I whipped up a quick 1500 points of models I have on hand and would probably take.

140 – Emperor’s Champion: Accept Any Challenge
105 – Techmarine, Full Servo Harness
163 – Venerable Dreadnought, SL, Extra Armor, Drop Pod
473 – 10x Initiates (BP+CCW), 3x Neophytes (BP+CCW), Powerfist, Land Raider Crusader (SL)
473 – 10x Initiates (BP+CCW), 3x Neophytes (BP+CCW), Powerfist, Land Raider Crusader (SL)
145 – Vindicator, Power of the Machine Spirit
Total: 1499


Pretty self explanatory, big Land Raider phalanx charges forwards to attack the enemy. Hopefully, my enemy won't have enough anti-tank to effectively deal with 4 high threat vehicles, and my scoring Crusader squads will be safe enough inside the LRC's and with their large numbers. Against conventional forces and swarms, I'll hang out inside my vehicles and blow the Shtlk outta 'em If my opponent is packing a lot of anti-tank, rush forwards first turn, blow smokes, move again and then charge. The Crusader squads should be able to handle it from there.

My main concern with this list is the techmarine... he's fluffy, I like the model, and he's simply fun to use in game. His vehicle repair rule could be very important, with the reroll he has a 1/3 chance every turn of fixing a vehicle. Could be instrumental in getting my LRC moving again or fixing a busted demolisher cannon. However, I have no squad to hang back and defend my deployment zone. Meaning nobody to chill out and capture an objective there, or sit on one mid-field. I was debating dropping the techmarine to get a 5x man squad with a plasma cannon to chill out, take pot shots at enemy formations, and hold the deployment zone. However, in some games they could be more of a liability than a benefit... they would be weak and secluded, and ripe for enemy outflankers, fast movers, or deep strikers... I figured the techmarine would be another solid combat character, as well as giving me an added bonus to fix my vehicles.

C & C Encouraged, I really wanna hear your thoughts.

EDIT* I had another idea about using 4 land raider's and a vindicator, with a barebones EC and basic 5x crusader squads. I think the amount of vehicles would be ridiculous, but for objectives or against enemies tailored for mech-heavy lists... you guys think it could work? Certainly a powerful alternative.
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Old 14 Nov 2008, 04:38   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]

My initial thoughts are not many scoring units and not alot of firepower. LRCs are nice, but they don't put out alot of firepower for the points. Only 2 crusader squads means taking objectives will be tough. Meltas will be your bane since all your tanks need to be relatively close to be effective.

In KP missions you should rock though. Your units are tough to kill and should be able to take out small, easy to kill units. But that is 1 in 3 missions.

I've been finding that a combination of mech and footsloggers get a nice balanced force. Maybe drop one LRC and beef up one squad to 20 strong. Then get another 8-10 man squad on foot. Perhaps with bolters and a plasmagun for some added fire support.
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Old 14 Nov 2008, 21:00   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]

Eh, usually I'm not a fan of mixed lists... I find they aren't always competitive, since you sacrifice a little bit of everything to be decent at everything... I'll flip through the codex and see what I can find though.

What would you try to include in 1500 points? Would you use LRC's at all? What sort of HQ (I'm not sure if I want any characters other than the EC). I was thinking about dropping the LRC squads down significantly (to 5 guys) to basically make the LRC's scoring units. I could then lump the remnants together into a bigger footslogging squad, which might be better. I could drop one of my support vehicles for a shooty squad or two, would you recommend dropping the Ven Dread or the Vindicator?

Sorry, I like getting other people's takes on things

EDIT: Here's another (really cheesy list I came up with). If all goes as planned, anything incapable of hurting armor value 14 is a waste in the opponent's list. Not sure I'd wanna play this one though, but it could definitely win... obviously the crusader squads have one land raider as a transport, so that the land raiders count as scoring...

110 - Emperor's Champion with Abhor the Witch
268 - LRC w/Smoke Launchers
268 - LRC w/Smoke Launchers
268 - LRC w/ Smoke Launchers
253 - LR w/ Smoke Launchers
80 - 5x Crusaders
80 - 5x Crusaders
80 - 5x Crusaders
80 - 5x Crusaders
Total: 1487
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Old 15 Nov 2008, 04:22   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]

I am a huge fan of command squads. They essentially give your marshall a ton of extra wounds. My current 1750 list is something like this:

Marshall with claws, halo and termi honors
10 man command squad with vet sgt w/ powerfist, and 2x meltaguns
LRC w/ smoke

EC w/ accept

20 (10 + 10) man crusader squad, fist & melta
10 (8+2) man crusader squad with fist melta in rhino with smoke and armor
10 man (10 + 0) man crusader squad with fist, plasmagun and bolters in rhino with armor and smoke
2 6 man (5+1) crusader squads with lascannon and plasmagun

marshall with command squad, 20 man squad and the bolter unit have ben my best units so far. I'm considering dropping a las/plas squad for a dread with a lascannon.

To get it to 1750 I'd probably drop the LRC and give the marshall and command squad the rhino that belongs to the CC crusader squad. Any leftover points would go to buying neophytes for that unit.
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Old 15 Nov 2008, 05:03   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]

So running off of your idea...

*All Initiates/Neophytes are equipped with CCW+Bolt Pistol unless otherwise specified.

160 - Marshal w/2x Lightning Claws, Crusader Seals, Iron Halo, Terminator Honors, Holy Orb
233 - 10x Command Squad Marines, 2x Meltaguns, Rhino w/Smokes
140 - Emperor's Champion w/ Accept Any Challenge
163 – Venerable Dreadnought, SL, Extra Armor, Drop Pod
131 - 5x Initiates, 3x Neophyte, Lascannon, Plasmagun
131 - 5x Initiates, 3x Neophyte, Lascannon, Plasmagun
285 - 10x Initiates, 10x Neophytes, Crusader Seals, Powerfist, Meltagun
234 - 10x Initiates (Bolters), Powerfist, Plasmagun, Rhino w/Smokes

Total: 1497

Really similair to your list, actually :P I don't think I have that many Initiate models (or special weapons) so it will be interesting trying to see what I can find/build. 4 scoring units, 2 of them saller las/plas squads, 1 gigantic footslogging squad, and 1 rhino support squad thing (equipped with Bolters, I guess). So we have one big footslogging squad (with EC) jumping from cover to cover, flanked by rhinos. Las/plas follow behind to provide fire support. The Marshal and his retinue should be able to trash anything in close combat, which is nice. Dread just falls and causes problems wherever he lands (he's definitely staying cuz I'm painting him now :P ) I'll go through and see what models I would need to get to make this doable (they have to be built within a week though!) and probably wind up comparing it to my alternate Chaos list.

Any suggestions for running a list like this? The only 5th Edition Templar games I've gotten in were all mech lists (something I'm rather fond of).
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 18:28   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]

If you want mech split up the 20 man unit and get a couple of rhinos. You could also do razorbacks, but I think they are kind of expensive still in our codex. I still think mixed mech/infantry is the best way to go, though. But I do see and understand the advantages of having all armor on the table.

The dread is cool. I am considering addign one to my list but am not sure what to drop.
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Old 16 Nov 2008, 23:47   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]

I would probably drop the close combat squad in the rhino. Give the rhino to another unit or something.

I find Templar Ven Dreads near invincible. Give him venerable, smokes, and extra armor, and watch your opponent cry. Smokes make you practically immune to most anti-vehicle shots anyways, and with Venerable is your enemy gets a lucky shot you can make him reroll it. Extra armor keeps you on the move, and once you get into combat you'll rip your foe to pieces. I highly recommend them, as they're such a fun unit to use, and can be devastating against most infantry squads that are unprepared for such a powerful monster (like a poor squad of 10 Eldar pathfinders... :P ) In the last two games alone I've had my Dread destroy two Defilers and an Avatar, all in combat.

It doesn't have to be permanant or anything, but be able to swap it out is always fun. They're certainly powerful. Some people like the tankhunter lascannon/missile launcher dread, and while it is powerful it's rather expensive and not nearly as fun. I love Walkers for their combat potential, which is devastating against normal troops.
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 13:12   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1500 Points - Mech Black Templars [competitive]

I've had very little trouble against troops. My trouble has actually been other dreadnaughts (particularly drop podded ones). So I am considering a lascannon dread that will usually start on the board and be fire support and CC support to my rear troops. Alternattively I am considering a multimelta dread in a drop pod.

Either way I am taking the DCCW and the rerolls from accept.

I think I will probably go with venerable, too. I have heard alot of good things.

My non-dread alternative is to take some MM attack bikes. Cheaper and will probably scare any dreads from getting too close.
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