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OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!
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Old 27 Oct 2008, 09:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Default OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

Pedro Kantor: 175 pts

Sterngaurd x5 (Pedro goes in here)
Sergeant w/ Powerfist, melta bombs
Combi Melta
Razorback w/ Heavy Bolters
: 200pts

Dreadnought w/ Multi Melta
Drop Pod
:140pts

Tactical Sqaud x10
Meltagun
Missile Launcher
Sergeant w/ Plasma Pistol
Rhino
:225pts

Tactical Sqaud x10
flamer
Heavy Bolter
Sergeant w/ Storm Bolter
Rhino
:205pts

Tactical Sqaud x10
Meltagun
Plasma Cannon
Sergeant w/ Powerfist
Rhino
:240pts

Devastator Sqaud x7
x2 Lascannons
x2 Missile Launchers
:222pts

Whirlwind: 85pts

Landraider: 250pts

Total Points 1742pts
Total aimed points: 1750pts

Total Marines: 44
Total Tanks: 8 (including both Dread and drop Pod)
Total Scoring units: 4/ 7 Scoring units

So how does this list fair with many of you...
Please C&C all welcome...
Kharvol...
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Old 31 Oct 2008, 23:21   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

Come on dont be shy...
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Old 03 Nov 2008, 01:55   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

I hate putting both a specail and a heavy weapon in a tactical squad. It severely reduces their efficiency in my eyes. I would arm all the sergeants with powerfists and plasma pistols if you could, though that would require you to cut points. That being said, a Land Raider is a likely area to cut points at. They're not worth it, honestly. My opponent today ran a list similar to this, and the Land Raider obligingly blew up the first time I pointed a Meltagun at it. The Dreadie is perfect, but give him Extra Armour and Venerable if you can scrape the points for it together.

I will assume that your devastator squad is outfitted with Missile Launchers simply because you have those models already made. If you don't I will advise you to just make it 4 Lascannons, you seriously need the Anti-Armour punch. Plus, Missile Launchers are woefully ineffective at everything - they're only good versus light vehicles, single-shotting MEQs and hitting a few gaunts at a time. Other than that, well, I stay away. I will grant that I run 3 Missile Launchers in my Devastator squad, but only because those are the only Heavy Weapon models I really have, since I refused to put them on my normal Tac squads.

Hope this all helps.
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Old 03 Nov 2008, 05:51   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

What is the purpose of the Land Raider? It appers to be only a heavy weapons platform and there are alot better ones, IMO.

You also lack much CC, particularly in a force that appears that the purpose is to get up in people's grills and bolter them to death.
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Old 03 Nov 2008, 10:07   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

Well the land raider is there for;
A) two Twin linked lascannons.
B) intimedation purposes
C) to pull troops out should the need arise.
and yeah...

Oh with the cc punch i know i lack it but thats the sacrifice i guess.

Well im thinking of ditching the Sterngaurd altogether because i played with them recently and to be honest they are not what i expected them to be. To me they die like marines, they're inneffective (unless you play 10+ of them). I will probably (even though i said i wouldn't) get a unit of assault terminators (with TH and SS) and stick em witht the land raider.

As for the tactical sqauds can anyone give me a good mechanised layout that is effective all round (ie combat, shooting etc...)
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Old 03 Nov 2008, 19:34   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kharvol
Well the land raider is there for;
A) two Twin linked lascannons.
B) intimedation purposes
C) to pull troops out should the need arise.
and yeah...
All this does not change the fact that you're paying 250 points for a high-priority target that is not likely to make it past the third turn against most lists. Like I said, the first time I aimed at a Land Raider in my last game it obligingly died. Same thing the time before that, just a single melta-shot popped a Redeemer a while back. Also understand that a single Land Raider does not create a lot of intimidation in players, as most will see a single Land Raider for what it is - a point sink. However, you certainly can't take any more than one due to points constraints.

Quote:
Oh with the cc punch i know i lack it but thats the sacrifice i guess.

Well im thinking of ditching the Sterngaurd altogether because i played with them recently and to be honest they are not what i expected them to be. To me they die like marines, they're inneffective (unless you play 10+ of them). I will probably (even though i said i wouldn't) get a unit of assault terminators (with TH and SS) and stick em witht the land raider.
Those Terminators will bother all of your opponents to no end. I can't help thinking that a 2+/3++ is simply broken no matter which way you slice it. I can't stand the new Storm Shields, they're part of the reason I won't play the new codex (because if I do I know I won't be able to keep away from those shiny Storm Shields). Now, if that doesn't bother you (and I suppose it shouldn't) then fine, that is an effective layout. I'm just saying it won't make you an friends. I'd still keep the Sternguard myself, for a reason I'll explain in a moment.

Quote:
As for the tactical sqauds can anyone give me a good mechanised layout that is effective all round (ie combat, shooting etc...)
Take a Flamer or a Melta and leave it at that. A melta will add a lot of anti-vehicle punch to the list, especially if taken in every squad, and it will make your Tactical squads a much larger threat. A Flamer will guarantee that you'll break other similar-function squads on the charge, since you'll be doing a decent amount of damage even before you charge. I'd argue a Flamer is better for an assault-oriented squad, but a Melta adds a lot of flexibility, which I like better. In a Mechanized army flexibility is key, since you won't have many units. This is one reason to keep your Sternguard actually, since with Pedro they're not only very strong at range, but they're also lethal in Close Combat with, what, 3 attacks base once Pedro joins? That's not bad at all.

Overall I'd say drop the Land Raider and all Heavy Weapons from your squads. Use the points to give Powerfists and Plasma to all the Sergeants, and give Meltas or Flamers to every Tactical squad. With the points left over I'd change the Razorback to a Rhino and toss in more Sternguard. That would give you a very powerful, very flexible list with a lot of bodies (for a mech list), a powerful assault force and an almost unrivalled swiftness.
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Old 03 Nov 2008, 20:58   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

I feel the mistake here is Pedro Kantor. I don't care what people say, I don't think he's worth it. For starters, he's taking away Combat Tactics, and that's far more useful than Stubborn.

Your Drop Pod has no Locator Beacon to guide it in, and as a rule I'd never drop a Dreadnought without one. Considering the last guy to do that to me wound up with Wazdakka on his six and had both arms blown off, rendering the Dread worthless, you can't really afford it to be slap-dash.

Sternguard are a really good unit. Now they are a unit I like to drop in as a first wave. Their Special Ammunition allows them to be used in a variety of ways, so even if they land a bit out of place they should be able to make themselves felt. If you have a Dreadnought in reserve, and the Sternguard are packing a Locator, then you've got a real double-whammy; the enemy either wastes fire knocking out an otherwise useless Drop Pod, or they ignore it and allow you to deliver a coup-de-grois with the Dreadnought exactly where it is needed.

Oh, one last thing; I would ignore everyone who says Combat Squads aren't worth it. They have won me plenty of games already.
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Old 03 Nov 2008, 23:00   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
I feel the mistake here is Pedro Kantor. I don't care what people say, I don't think he's worth it. For starters, he's taking away Combat Tactics, and that's far more useful than Stubborn.
But unless I'm mistaken you don't have to drop Combat Tactics if you don't want to use it, you just can't use Kantor's Chapter Tactics then.

Quote:
Your Drop Pod has no Locator Beacon to guide it in, and as a rule I'd never drop a Dreadnought without one. Considering the last guy to do that to me wound up with Wazdakka on his six and had both arms blown off, rendering the Dread worthless, you can't really afford it to be slap-dash.
Erm, I don't care what anyone says, Locator Beacons aren't necessary for Drop Pods. You're making it into the fight, and that's plenty enough really. Pack him in with 2 shooting arms and you ought to do fine with him anyway.

Quote:
Sternguard are a really good unit. Now they are a unit I like to drop in as a first wave. Their Special Ammunition allows them to be used in a variety of ways, so even if they land a bit out of place they should be able to make themselves felt. If you have a Dreadnought in reserve, and the Sternguard are packing a Locator, then you've got a real double-whammy; the enemy either wastes fire knocking out an otherwise useless Drop Pod, or they ignore it and allow you to deliver a coup-de-grois with the Dreadnought exactly where it is needed.
That's perfectly valid and I agree with it 100%, as long as you're careful with where they go when they deep-strike, since they still die like Marines.

Quote:
Oh, one last thing; I would ignore everyone who says Combat Squads aren't worth it. They have won me plenty of games already.
I haven't been in a single situation yet where Combat Squads are worth using. If you play a shooty army, then there are moments when they're worth it, but if you're aiming for a fast assault army (which is what at least 95% of Marine Mech lists are) then Combat Squads simply are not worth it at all. You need to assault with large units, and you can only fit one squad in a transport.

Honestly, Wargamer, while you may feel that's a valid argument for Combat Squads, I can make the exact same counter argument. I'm doing better than a 4/5 win ratio (I'm probably at about a 5/6, I need to recalculate which I don't feel like doing now), so obviously I can't be all wrong.
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Old 04 Nov 2008, 05:01   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

Ok what about this list:
Captain
. Powerfist
125pts

Command sqaud (captain goes in here)
.Company Champion
.Apothecary
.Company Standard
. Powerfist
. x2 Plasma pistols
Razorback
240pts

Pedro Kantor :175pts

x10 Sternguard (pedro goes here)
. Powerfist
Drop Pod
:310pts

Tactical sqaud x10
Melta gun
Plasma pistol
Rhino
225pts

Tactical sqaud x10
Flamer
Powerfist
Rhino
220pts

Tactical sqaud x10
Plasmagun
Power weapon
Rhino
235pts

Whirlwind: 85pts

This list still has 140pts left to spend so please give me suggestions...
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Old 04 Nov 2008, 10:34   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: OK!!! THE BEST LIST EVER!!!

I have to ask, why the captain who appears to be a weaker form of Pedro? I understand you need him for the command squad, but in my opinion, you'd be much better suited dropping the c. squad and captain for two assault squads. It gives you a lot more diversity and marines, while still not losing much speed.

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