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1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]
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Old 24 Apr 2007, 11:10   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

With conflict over just a few days ago I am starting to prepare for Grand Tournament 2007. I am a complete and Utter Space Marine newbie, so please give me helpfull comments.

Master Of Sancity
bolter
arftificer armour
True grit
Counter attack
Frags

Command Squad
Sargeant [power fist, terminator honours]
Marine w/ flamer
Marine w/ Melta-Guns
Apocathary
Company Banner
Drop Pod

Dreadnought
Lascannon
Tank hunters
Extra armour

Dreadnought
Extra Armour

Dreadnought
Extra Armour

Bike Squadron
3x Marines on Bikes
2x Marines on Bikes w/ Melta-Guns
Bike Squadron
3x Marines on Bikes
2x Marines on Bikes w/ Flamers

Tactical Squad
True Grit
Counter Attack
6x Marines
1x Marine w/ flamer
1xMarine w/ Melta-gun
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad
True Grit
Counter Attack
6x Marines
1x Marine w/ Heavy Bolter
1xMarine w/ Plasma-gun
Drop Pod

Land Speeder Tornado
1x Multi-Melta
1x Heavy Flamer


MAJOR DRAWBACK: Flesh Over Steel
MINOR DRAWBACK: Have Faith in Suspicion
TRAIT: Trust Your Battle Brothers
TRAIT: Be Swift As The Wind


So, good or bad for my first list? C&C please.

Cheers ;D
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Old 25 Apr 2007, 01:16   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

OK...

1st- you can NOT have two special weapons per tactical squad without the cleanse and purify trait

2nd- you're list will probably be slaughtered. Starting on the board you have 3 dreads 6 bikes and maybe a land speeder. 9 maybe 10 models. You could hide them I guess but why? Then you have 22 marines costing apparently almost 1000 points that won't show up until at the earliest turn 2.

at 1500 points that's just not enough models and with very little survivability AND split into two forces for the most part.

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Old 25 Apr 2007, 10:17   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

As I said, I am new to marines.

So are you actually going to suggest something? or just blatantly throw comments regarding how bad the army list is at me?
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Old 25 Apr 2007, 11:31   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevrøn05
As I said, I am new to marines.

So are you actually going to suggest something? or just blatantly throw comments regarding how bad the army list is at me?
Lol, that's a fair point my friend. I think the point that Adrenelyn was trying to make (beside the fact that you have a pure powergaming list) is that your list is armour heavy to start with. Because you have your troops etc in drop pods they aren't going to turn up until at the earliest turn two, and by then most of your armour would have been popped by your opponent. So your troops will have no support.

I think the best way to remedy this, and help you build a list that you will be happy with is if you tell us what kind of force you would like, and we can suggest things to you. Only suggestions though, this is your list and ultimately you need to be happy with it.

So with that in mind, a few questions;

Ok so I'm guessing this is going to be a custom army? Not a codex one?

Your trait flesh over steel means that you only want one, or no tanks in your army. True?

Be swift as the wind means that you want basically want bikes. True?

Why do you want these particular units? And have you bought any of the units yet?

Give me an outline of the force that you are looking for and i will be glad to make you a sample list and we can build on it from there.

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Old 25 Apr 2007, 12:44   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

what kind of force you would like?
My Force is based on spartans (If you haven't seen 300, You wont know why the hell I'm doing this) because they are tough (like marines), usually outnumbred (like marines) and really cool (like marines). This means a fair few troops and not alot of tanks. I also want my Squads drop podding, obviously nothing to do with spartans but I want a go at making a few drop pods.

Ok so I'm guessing this is going to be a custom army? Not a codex one?
Yep, Its a custom army.

Your trait flesh over steel means that you only want one, or no tanks in your army. True?
Yeah only a few tanks, its part of my theme.

Be swift as the wind means that you want basically want bikes. True?
Yes I want bikes. Even if I don't take this trait, I want 1 squad of bikes in the army.

Why do you want these particular units? And have you bought any of the units yet?
As I said earlier its part of my "spartan" theme. I already have 21 marines from trades and my bits box, havent actually bought anything so its all still really flexible, they can be adjusted.

So basically Id like at least 1 of the following in the army minimum:

1 squad of bikes
1 or 2 dreads
some drop podding marines
1 Landspeeder

Anything else is a given. Feel free to swap my traits around as well (except trust in your battle bothers). Any help would be greatly appreciated

Cheers and thanks in advance.


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Old 25 Apr 2007, 17:05   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

What about drop podding your dreanoughts or some terminators maybe? trust me it's good to have a few squads (even small ones) on the board until the cavalry turns up.
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Old 25 Apr 2007, 21:13   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

I could swap 2 drop podding units for 2 drop podding dreads?
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Old 25 Apr 2007, 21:29   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

Ok, here's an idea of a list for you. It's not exactly what you asked for but it's start. We'll have to work together on this one bud!

I think it's just over 1500 points but i haven't got the codex to hand.

Traits would be flesh over steel, trust your battle brothers and see but don't be seen

HQ; Termie Librarian, familiar, storm bolter, might of heroes.
+ 4 Termies with 2 assault cannons.

Deep strike or drop pod this unit, shoot the turn you land and if there's anything left god help them when you charge

Troops; 10 marines, serg term honours and power fist, meltagun, infiltrate and true grit.
10 marines, serg term honours and power fist, meltagun, infiltrate and true grit.

These squads infiltrate as close as possible and advance and rapid fire, or stay in cover and shoot away, waiting to be charged. They're very handy units indeed with 2 attacks even when they're charged!

6 marines, plasgun, lascannon, infiltrate.
6 marines, plasgun, lascannon, infiltrate.

These are fire support squads, supporting your advancing troops and at the same time providing anti tank.

Fast attack; Tornado

It's hard to do but if you can keep these out of the way until most of the danger is clear these fast vehicles are very good at capturing objectives. Alternatively supporting your troops with these is cool if they last.

Elites; Dreadnought, furious charge, extra armour, drop pod.
Dreadnought, furious charge, extra armour, drop pod.

Drop these behind enemy lines with your command squad and watch your enemy cry like a little girl! (unless they are little girl in which case you should be ashamed of yourself!)

Ok so i know it's not exactly what you wanted but it's a start, and sorry there's no bikes in there. I got carried away. Let me know what you think and if you've got anymore ideas
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Old 26 Apr 2007, 01:37   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

Constructive? oh...

Based on the list you gave but fooled with.. I get...

Master Of sanctity
Bolt pistol
artificer armour
Bike
Frags




Dreadnought
Tank hunters
smoke
Drop pod

Dreadnought
smoke
Drop Pod

Dreadnought
smoke
Drop Pod

Bike Squadron (5 bikes)
Sergeant w/ Termi. honours, Power Weapon, Combat shield
2 Melta-Guns


Tactical Squad
10x Marines
2x plasmaguns
Drop Pod


Tactical Squad
10x Marines
2x plasma guns
Drop Pod

2x Land Speeders
Multi-Melta
Heavy Flamer

Land Speeder
Heavy Bolter
Assault Cannon

Land Speeder
Heavy Bolter
Assault Cannon

MAJOR DRAWBACK: Flesh Over Steel
MINOR DRAWBACK: Have Faith in Suspicion
TRAIT: Cleanse and Purify
TRAIT: Be Swift As The Wind



1500 Points, 1st turn turbo the bikes to get the invulnerable save and get into cc asap. Everything else deep strikes in. Still its a bit low on models for 1500 points and theres always the chance that your units trickle in 1 or 2 at a time.
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Old 26 Apr 2007, 09:14   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 1500pts Black Dragons [Grand Tournament '07]

Hey Guys, Thanks alot for the Input. Its really helping.

Anyways after I read through your comments I made another list, what do you think of this:

Codicer Librarian
Familiar
Bolt Pistol
Terminator Armour
Might Of Heroes

Command Squad
2xTerminators
2xTerminators w/ Assault Cannons

Dreadnought
Lascannon
Tank hunters
Extra armour
Drop Pod

Dreadnought
Extra Armour

Dreadnought
Extra Armour

Bike Squadron
2x Marines on Bikes
2x Marines on Bikes w/ Melta-Guns
1x Sargeant on Bike w/ Terminator Honours and Power Fist

Tactical Squad
5x Marines
1x Marine w/ Plasma-gun
1x Sargeant w/ Terminator Honours and Power Fist
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad
5x Marines
1x Marine w/ Melta-gun
1x Sargeant w/Terminator Honours and Power Weapon, Frag

Tactical Squad
6x Marines
1x Marine w/ Melta-gun

Land Speeder Tornado
1x Multi-Melta

MAJOR DRAWBACK: Flesh Over Steel
MINOR DRAWBACK: We Stand Alone
TRAIT: Trust Your Battle Brothers
TRAIT: Be Swift As The Wind

Im Not sure as to swap the trudging Tactical squad with the Lone melta to a heavy weapon (the boards are 6'x6&#39. Maybe a multimelta or heavy bolter?

Cheers guys
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