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My brother's poor space marines...
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Old 14 Apr 2007, 20:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 269
Default My brother's poor space marines...

Hi all.

Alright, here's the situation: my brother plays space marines. As far as I can tell, he has a good list right now, but he almost never wins with it for some reason! I was hoping that someone could provide me with advice on how my brother could change his army list to make it work. Here's his 1500 list: (Note: I know this comes out at over 1500, but he varies his list to reduce it down to that amount.)

Space Marine commander: storm bolter, master-crafted power fist, Iron halo, purity seals: 150 pts.

Retinue for commander: 1 Company champion, 1 Apothocary, 1 Standard bearer, 1 marine with plasma gun, 1 space marine with bolt pistol and close combat weapon. 155 pts.

Space marine librarian: veil of time, Fury of the ancients, Artificer Armor, purity seals. 159 pts.

Terminator squad: 5 Terminators, 1 with assault cannon, 4 with power fists, 1 with power weapon. 220 pts.

Dreadnought: Venerable, Furious charge, Extra armor, Assault cannon and storm bolter. 140 pts.

Tactical squad: 10 Space marines, 1 with Flamer, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol. 156 pts.

Tactical squad: 10 Space marines, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol. 160 pts.

Scout squad: 5 scouts, 2 with bolters, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol, 1 with heavy bolter, sergeant with terminator honors, power weapon, and bolt pistol. 94 pts.

Land Speeder: Tornado upgrade. 80 pts.

Devastator squad: 5 Space marines, 1 with missile launcher, 1 with plasma cannon, 1 with lascannon, 1 with heavy bolter, 1 with bolt pistol and close combat weapon. 180 pts.

Devastator squad: 5 space marines, 2 with missile launchers, 3 with bolters.

+47 pts for preferred enemy against Tyranids.

EDIT: Inquisitor with psycannon, power weapon, artificer armor, refractor field. Retinue: 2 Combat servitors, 2 gun servitors, 1 with plasma cannon, 1 with heavy bolter, 1 sage, 1 heirophant. 233 pts.

Total: 1889
__________________
Armies:
Tyranids: 1500
Eldar: 1000


My brother's armies
Space marines: 1500
Daemonhunters: 200- and staying there for a long time.
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Old 14 Apr 2007, 20:25   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 438
Default Re: My brother's poor space marines...

the devastator squads are messed up
why take all different weapons take similar weapons 2 missiles with 3 las's and 2 hv bolters with something else that way say you fire on a tank with your 2 missile launchers the bolters will be wasted and the other one is just wrong all different
also what do you normal play against?
hope that helps

m@tt
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Old 14 Apr 2007, 20:42   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,807
Default Re: My brother's poor space marines...

Quote:
Space Marine commander: storm bolter, master-crafted power fist, Iron halo, purity seals: 150 pts.
His list is already not nearly as good as you think... Drop the Stormbolter for a Bolt Pistol, for an extra Attack. Drop the Master-Crafting and make the 'Fist a Power Weapon, so he doesn't waste his Initiative. Drop the Purity Seals entirely. They suck.

Quote:
Retinue for commander: 1 Company champion, 1 Apothocary, 1 Standard bearer, 1 marine with plasma gun, 1 space marine with bolt pistol and close combat weapon. 155 pts.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. A whole heap of points into a tooled-out squad with no transport vehicle?! Get a Drop Pod.

Quote:
Space marine librarian: veil of time, Fury of the ancients, Artificer Armor, purity seals. 159 pts.
Get a Bolt Pistol, drop the Purity Seals.

Quote:
Terminator squad: 5 Terminators, 1 with assault cannon, 4 with power fists, 1 with power weapon. 220 pts.
I hate to be an advocate of noobishness, but get another Assault Cannon.

Quote:
Dreadnought: Venerable, Furious charge, Extra armor, Assault cannon and storm bolter. 140 pts.
Tank Hunter over Furious Charge, a Drop Pod & Extra Armour would serve him well for a close-range Dread like that.

Quote:
Tactical squad: 10 Space marines, 1 with Flamer, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol. 156 pts.
Short ranged, no firepower, no mobility.

Quote:
Tactical squad: 10 Space marines, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol. 160 pts.
Marginally better, but not much. Drop two Marines from each squad and get some decent weaponry.

Quote:
Scout squad: 5 scouts, 2 with bolters, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol, 1 with heavy bolter, sergeant with terminator honors, power weapon, and bolt pistol. 94 pts.
Skip the BP&CCW, if you want shooty don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Quote:
Land Speeder: Tornado upgrade. 80 pts.
Finally, something usefull...

Quote:
Devastator squad: 5 Space marines, 1 with missile launcher, 1 with plasma cannon, 1 with lascannon, 1 with heavy bolter, 1 with bolt pistol and close combat weapon. 180 pts.
My eyes bleed. Pitifully useless combinations of redundant weapons, equip this squad like the other one (weapons for a single purpose).

Quote:
Devastator squad: 5 space marines, 2 with missile launchers, 3 with bolters.
Holy crap, a decent unit!

Quote:
+47 pts for preferred enemy against Tyranids.
A bunch less points for a Drop Pod, or a few more for a Rhino, to make one of the Tactical Squads tactically viable.
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Old 14 Apr 2007, 20:46   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 269
Default Re: My brother's poor space marines...

My brother primairly plays against me and my Tyranids, unless I'm using my Eldar. (Which I've been doing a lot of recently) If he's not up against me, then he tends to be up against either space marines or chaos. Those are the primary armies used at our store.

Also, the devastators are mostly messed up simply because of a lack of heavy weapon models. Not much we can do there unless we buy a lot of blister packs. He probably doesn't have the money to make such minor edits right now.

Oh, I just realized. My brother recently started daemon hunters as both a new army, and an attempt to help his marines. All he has right now is an inquisitor with a small retinue. I'll edit in the inquisitor to the army list in my first post. So if my brother goes through with this, should he go with grey knights or storm troopers?

I greatly appreciate any help anyone can give.
__________________
Armies:
Tyranids: 1500
Eldar: 1000


My brother's armies
Space marines: 1500
Daemonhunters: 200- and staying there for a long time.
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Old 14 Apr 2007, 21:17   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 269
Default Re: My brother's poor space marines...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dra'Tuisich-Novae
Quote:
Space Marine commander: storm bolter, master-crafted power fist, Iron halo, purity seals: 150 pts.
His list is already not nearly as good as you think... Drop the Stormbolter for a Bolt Pistol, for an extra Attack. Drop the Master-Crafting and make the 'Fist a Power Weapon, so he doesn't waste his Initiative. Drop the Purity Seals entirely. They suck.

Quote:
Retinue for commander: 1 Company champion, 1 Apothocary, 1 Standard bearer, 1 marine with plasma gun, 1 space marine with bolt pistol and close combat weapon. 155 pts.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. A whole heap of points into a tooled-out squad with no transport vehicle?! Get a Drop Pod.

Quote:
Space marine librarian: veil of time, Fury of the ancients, Artificer Armor, purity seals. 159 pts.
Get a Bolt Pistol, drop the Purity Seals.

Quote:
Terminator squad: 5 Terminators, 1 with assault cannon, 4 with power fists, 1 with power weapon. 220 pts.
I hate to be an advocate of noobishness, but get another Assault Cannon.

Quote:
Dreadnought: Venerable, Furious charge, Extra armor, Assault cannon and storm bolter. 140 pts.
Tank Hunter over Furious Charge, a Drop Pod & Extra Armour would serve him well for a close-range Dread like that.

Quote:
Tactical squad: 10 Space marines, 1 with Flamer, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol. 156 pts.
Short ranged, no firepower, no mobility.

Quote:
Tactical squad: 10 Space marines, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol. 160 pts.
Marginally better, but not much. Drop two Marines from each squad and get some decent weaponry.

Quote:
Scout squad: 5 scouts, 2 with bolters, 1 with close combat weapon and bolt pistol, 1 with heavy bolter, sergeant with terminator honors, power weapon, and bolt pistol. 94 pts.
Skip the BP&CCW, if you want shooty don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Quote:
Land Speeder: Tornado upgrade. 80 pts.
Finally, something usefull...

Quote:
Devastator squad: 5 Space marines, 1 with missile launcher, 1 with plasma cannon, 1 with lascannon, 1 with heavy bolter, 1 with bolt pistol and close combat weapon. 180 pts.
My eyes bleed. Pitifully useless combinations of redundant weapons, equip this squad like the other one (weapons for a single purpose).

Quote:
Devastator squad: 5 space marines, 2 with missile launchers, 3 with bolters.
Holy Klkn, a decent unit!

Quote:
+47 pts for preferred enemy against Tyranids.
A bunch less points for a Drop Pod, or a few more for a Rhino, to make one of the Tactical Squads tactically viable.
Oi! Harsh! Alright, most of these changes sound good, but I can't help but question a few of them...

The commander and his retinue I have discovered never last long out on their own. I always annihilate them within one turn. My brother tends to prefer to use them as a close combat unit for when I advance on him, so his other units support the commander. Changing the commander's equipment is a good idea, but I think the retinue is fine for how my brother uses it.

Librarian: That's a mistake on my part, he really has a bolt pistol already.

Terminators: He would if he had the model, but he hasn't bought another assault cannon yet.

Dreadnought: Once again a drop pod doesn't work with my brother's tactics. He prefers to keep his army in one group, albeit a spread out one. :

As for the preferred enemy points, my brother has been considering getting rid of that for a while now.

Other than that, I'll see what he thinks of these ideas.
__________________
Armies:
Tyranids: 1500
Eldar: 1000


My brother's armies
Space marines: 1500
Daemonhunters: 200- and staying there for a long time.
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Old 16 Apr 2007, 15:09   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,543
Default Re: My brother's poor space marines...

why on earth would you wanna keep your entire army together in one mob?? terrible tactical decision

anyways, for the commander...well, i'm gonna say whether or not you lose the stormbolter, if you're gonna ditch the fist, pick up a lightning claw instead of a power weapon. re-rolling failed to-wounds make this a better weapon by far

everything else i agree with
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Old 19 Apr 2007, 12:38   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: My brother's poor space marines...

yeah your space marines, your suppose to fight all over, not keep em spread out. Dont be afraid to lose a few models, if you can tie up most of their army with a drop podding dread and HQ, then you can advance the rest of your army unmolested, and probably kill off a bunch of important things.
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Old 19 Apr 2007, 21:16   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 269
Default Re: My brother's poor space marines...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunt90
yeah your space marines, your suppose to fight all over, not keep em spread out. Dont be afraid to lose a few models, if you can tie up most of their army with a drop podding dread and HQ, then you can advance the rest of your army unmolested, and probably kill off a bunch of important things.
Hmm, never thought of that tactic like that... We'll probably want to see if it works out. Besides, that would make the games we play a bit more unpredictable... :P Thanks for the advice!

I'll be able to see what he thinks and how it works tomorrow.
__________________
Armies:
Tyranids: 1500
Eldar: 1000


My brother's armies
Space marines: 1500
Daemonhunters: 200- and staying there for a long time.
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Old 20 Apr 2007, 01:05   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: My brother's poor space marines...

hey, no problem, thats what the boards are for!
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Survivor of the 06' Battle Royale!
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