[arguleon-veq]

With the talk about raw Infantry armies in the 'Are Marines too Powerful' thread, I thought I'd actually come up with a raw Infantry list and see how many Marines I could pack in whilst still remaining reasonably effective. So no raw Marine squads [as you can get about 90 raw Marines in a legal army].

Reclusiarch; 105 Points
Jump Pack.

7 Assault Marines; 204 Points
2 Plasma Pistols. Sarg; Powerfist.
8 Assault Marines; 226 Points
2 Plasma Pistols. Sarg; Powerfist.

10 Marines; 156 Points
Flamer.
10 Marines; 156 Points
Flamer
10 Marines; 190 Points
Plasma gun. Sarg; Powerfist.
10 Marines; 190 Points
Plasma gun. Sarg; Powerfist.
8 Marines; 135 Points
Lascannon.
8 Marines; 135 Points
Lascannon.

Total - 1497 Points

Summary;

72 Marines -

16 Jump Infantry,
56 Infantry.

2 Flamers,
2 Lascannon,
2 Plasma Guns,
4 Plasma Pistols,
4 Power Fists,
48 Bolters.

So what do you think?, would a list like that actually work?.

[Vash113]

I personally dont like the flamer tac squads as I really do not hold the flamer as a great foot slogger weapon of choice but for its price its not bad on the mobile squads.

All in all that sheer number of power armor will probably win out in the end as it will be darn hard for the enemy to knock down all that power armor. However I would take a master with storm bolter over the reclusiarch just to boost the whole armies leadership to 10 and keep those few heavy weapons in place as your relying on them more heavily than in other armies.

But yes it does look like it would actually work. Not sure exactly how well it would work, but work it would.

[arguleon-veq]

Yeah, I'm wasn't keen on Flamers in slogging squads either but despite the amount of Bolters in the list, It is still really lacking in anti horde ability and wouldn't wan't to see everything bogged down by things like Spine Gaunts. Plus, for 6 points I can't really complain.

That's a good idea on the Master actually. I figured I'd go for the Chaplain because the list lacks any real combat threat, and he really boosts the ability of the Assault squad. Torn between which to use now.

Master;
Storm Bolter.

+ 1 extra Assault Marine

or the Chaplain.

I reckon your probably right and it would be best to have LD 10 across the board.

[Vash113]

The extra assault marine makes 2 squads of 8 which is more effective moral wise and the leadership 10 is a great bonus and while the chaplain does boost assault capability with the assault marines as your only assault element they are more suited as a counter charge force and not primarily offencive as that would just get them killed. They could follow behind the flamer squads and just ahead of the other squads and should the tac squads get tied in cc they can absorb some damage as they are marines and not prone to going down too easily the assault squads can then charge the already tied up enemy and pound them. Wont work against assault dedicated forces but for a take all comers list type its not a bad way to go and of course just an option.

73 marines in a 1500pt force, almost twice what I would normally expect, now that would get your opponents attention.

[arguleon-veq]

Just been changing things a bit, how about;

Master; 80 Points
Storm Bolter.

Joining [So it's a 10 strong unit overall] -

9 Marines; 190 Points
Plasma gun. Sarg; Powerfist.


6 Assault Marines; 182 Points
2 Plasma Pistols. Sarg; Powerfist.
8 Assault Marines; 226 Points
2 Plasma Pistols. Sarg; Powerfist.

10 Marines; 186 Points
Flamer. Sarg; Powerfist.
10 Marines; 186 Points
Flamer. Sarg; Powerfist.
10 Marines; 190 Points
Plasma gun. Sarg; Powerfist.
8 Marines; 135 Points
Lascannon.
8 Marines; 135 Points
Lascannon.

Total - 1495 Points

Summary;

70 Marines -

14 Jump Infantry,
56 Infantry.

2 Flamers,
2 Lascannon,
2 Plasma Guns,
4 Plasma Pistols,
6 Power Fists,
46 Bolters.

Means you have a solid wall of 40 Marines that can all work in combat due to the extra powerfists.

[Vash113]

Looks good, I want to see the army thats prepared to shoot down 40 marines fast enough to escape all those powerfists.

[Falstead]

Meh neither list looks threatening to me.

They've both got numbers, and the assault marines give some speed but overall they just don't have enough threat potential.

The army is is very segmented and provides obvious high priority targets that can be easily dealt with one at a time while avoiding everything else.

After reading the thread I wrote up a few 90 man marine lists (and actually had 90 power armored bodies in one list!) but I just don't see the list as a truly competitive army that will perform well in a tournament setting.

Anyways this is what I came up with

Captain w/ storm bolter
Command squad - 9 marines w/ 2 w/ plasma gun
220

10 Tactical marines w/ lascannon
165

10 Tactical marines w/ lascannon
165

10 Tactical marines w/ lascannon
165

10 Tactical marines w/ lascannon
165

10 Tactical marines w/ plasma gun
160

10 Tactical marines w/ plasma gun
160

10 Devestators w/ bolters
150

10 Devestators w/ bolters
150

1500 points exactly. 90 Marines exactly.

It has 4 lascannons and 4 plasma guns, not to mention a lot of bolter fire.

And it will do diddly squat unless the army it's fighting is either gaunts or Orks running straight at it without using cover.

[MalVeauX]

Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq

So what do you think?, would a list like that actually work?.

Heya,

It will work to an extent, but how well it will work will greatly depend on your opponent. At 1500 points, there's not a lot of things in the list(s) that can stop mobility. And that will be what hurts it. The army can walk around, and has enough models to weather a storm. That's good for missions with objective points (but this is bad for a Recon). The problem is, keeping 6" moving marines (and maybe less, depending on terrain, as they may get bogged down a turn or two), means most of your weapons are firing at 12" as you walk, and all that while, probably walking towards the objectives as you cannot afford to lose a turn of moving unless you're already on the objective or know that you're near it enough. A single assault can keep you stuck long enough to lose a movement phase, and literally lose an objective when you're talking about 6" movement at best. And assault marines shouldn't be expected to hold objectives as they're all you have to stop mobility of enemy units and even then, only ones with wound values really. This list won't have much to do against an enemy skimmer list, or a fast moving mass infantry list. Mass marines are great, but what if they face mass plasma? Mass choppas? Chainaxes and Bloodletters? Anything that takes away the 3+ save too easily, makes each marine less worth his salt, when they fall too fast. It will still take a great deal of work to beat them down, but with this many marines, even Ordnance would be effective since even with a scatter, they're bound to nab a few. And ultimately, an army with vehicles could block movement lanes, assault you to stop an advance for a turn, and use cheap units to take objectives with superior mobility or the denial of line of sight to you, where your few heavy weapons can't touch them; and your moving rapid-fire weapons don't have range.

Anyhow, it can work. But again, really depends on the mission, terrain and opponent's army. Even attrition wars can be won, simply by limiting movement in the right mission.

Cheers!

[icer190]

I love infantry only marines(do it with my BT > ) But the only problem I have is the fact that all of your squads start on the ground, I would say take one or two and drop pod 'em in, "Oh, I just destroyed most of your army... but mine is decimated too..." "Oh, my researves came in, say hello to Mr. Rapidfire squads!"

[citizen_kodo]

I'd give Flamers to one of the Assault squads, as these guys have the mobility needed to make the most use out of these promethium gout throwers.