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help the noob
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Old 11 Aug 2006, 16:21   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default help the noob

hi, before i start, I'm not whining I'm just asking for help

well my problem is, never ,or very rarely win battles, this is my army , please advise me on what units to buy or get rid of etc.. (my main opponent is tau and they shoot me to death)


i have:
terminator assault squad
10 mantactical squad with lascannon and flamer
10 man tactical squad with missile launcher
5 man tactical squad with bolter's
rhino transport
3 bikes
1 attack bike
1 landspeeder


please help me!

(i think what i lack is heavy support ??? but i thought i would question a few forums for advice before i go and buy stuff)
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Old 11 Aug 2006, 16:32   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: help the noob

Hey, welcome to the boards.

From what I can see, you probably are lacking some heavy support there, especially if you are facing Mechanised Tau and the likes.

Before we can give you more detailed help however, it would be better to know what your opponents usually field. Does your Tau opponent use a static or very mobile army? Does he / she use lots of tanks, or infantry? Is there any particular Tau unit / vehicle which is causing you bother? What size of games do you usually play? How do you usually play with your Marines - do you stand and shoot, or do you try to get into close combat?
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Old 11 Aug 2006, 16:35   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: help the noob

my opponent usualy uses one hell of a lot of infantry and a hammerhead and a few vespids, we play on a table about 6 ft by 4 ft

oh and i usually try to get into close combat and my opponent just shoots at me


(Please don't double post, thanks - Stam)
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Old 11 Aug 2006, 18:10   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: help the noob

EDIT : By the way, its generally against forum rules to "double post". Just remember for next time, it's better to edit the previous post rather than making a new one - some mods can be quite grumpy about this.

Ok,

The problems

Terminator Assault Squad - These guys are very expensive and very slow. They are monsters in close combat, but are overkill against Tau. Tau have lots of ways and means of killing them before they get near combat - namely plasma rifles and fusion guns. Even massed Pulse rifles will take these guys down too quickly for comfort.

Close combat vs. Shooty - Sometimes all-out close combat isn't the answer to static Tau. Try to balance close-combat tactics with long-range firepower.

The Solutions

Lascannons - A single lascannon and a missile launcher aren't enough to easily deal with a Hammerhead. I recommend you take at least two lascannons, in small fire support squads (5 or 6 men). Possibly take them in Veteran squads so that you can use the Tank Hunters trait. These will make short work of a single Hammerhead.

Heavy Bolters - Heavy Bolters are excellent weapons to use against infantry-heavy static Tau. They have 6'' higher range than Firewarrior's pulse rifles, 3 shots, and wound Firewarriors on a 2+ with no save. I'd recommend you take a couple of these in small Tactical squads, or take a bunch of them in a Devastator squad.

Assault Squads and Bikes - These guys can be useful against static, infantry-heavy Tau. They're fast, and can get into close combat quickly - not something that Tau want. They will get shot at quite a bit, so its best to take them in large squads to ensure that some make it to close combat.

Landspeeders - Cheap and fast. Great for seizing objectives. I'd stick with the bog standard Heavy Bolter variant - long ranged (Landspeeders are easily downed by pulse rifles at close range) and great against Firewarriors.

Whirlwind - You may want to invest in one or two of these. Cheap, AP4 ordnance, devastating against massed ranks of Firewarriors. Stick them behind cover so that the enemy cannot target you.

Devastators - As mentioned above, are great when loaded out with Heavy Bolters. Can also be useful with Missile Launchers, alright for taking down Hammerheads and Devilfishes, and great for instant-killing vulnerable Battlesuits. Large squads of devastators in cover are quite difficult to get rid of, compared to say, a single vehicle.

Drop Pods - Take these for Tactical squads which you want to get into combat with. They allow you to drop right on top of your enemy's static firing line. The drop pod acts as cover, so you can prevent your marines from getting shot up too much before they can charge into combat.

Rhinos - Can be useful against Tau, but usually just get shot up. In this case, best used as mobile cover if anything - walk your troops behind the transport instead of in it. If you must use them for transport, take smoke launchers and extra armour on them.

Deep-striking / Jump pack / bike Librarian - With the Fear of the Darkness power, the Librarian can send Firewarrior squads and battlesuits running. Great for disrupting static firing lines, however better left for larger point games.

Here is a 1000 points sample list:
[hr]
[size=8pt]
HQ 1 - Captain @ 65 points
- Storm Bolter

Command Squad @ 150 points
- 6 Space Marines
- 2 Heavy Bolters

Troops 1 - Tactical Squad @ 105 points
- 6 Space Marines
- Lascannon

Troops 2 - Tactical Squad @ 105 points
- 6 Space Marines
- Lascannon

Troops 3 - Tactical Squad @ 95 points
- 6 Space Marines
- Heavy Bolter

Troops 3 - Tactical Squad @ 156 points
- 8 Space Marines
- Flamer
- Drop Pod

Fast Attack 1 - Assault Squad @ 188 points
- 8 Assault Marines
- 2 Plasma Pistols

Fast Attack 2 - Landspeeder @ 50 points
- Heavy Bolter

Heavy Support 1 - Whirlwind @ 85 points[/size]
[hr]


You may also want to take a look at some other similar threads:
Looking for Anti Guard and Tau Tactics

Good luck!
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Old 11 Aug 2006, 18:17   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: help the noob

You my want a 10man assault squad backed up with a landspeeder tornado w/heavy bolter and assault cannon.
A chaplin with jump pack can be deadly.You need some devastators with either heavybolters or missilelaunchers,or lascannons.A predator can be helpful.I would have a tactical squad like this:
8 men
vet sgt,w/termi honors,powerfist,bolt pistol
plasma gun
heavy bolter
rino W/extra armour and smoke launchers, pretty useful.

It would be better to deep strike your termi assault squad.Give a drop pod to one of those tac squads(give it the flamer marine or melta)
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Old 11 Aug 2006, 18:56   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: help the noob

I agree with Charn that Whirlwinds could be just the ticket here. As you said, you're lacking heavy support, but if you take a Predator or a Vindicator (no idea why you would want to take a Vindicator, mind) then, as the most viable armoured target on the table (the only vehicle that cannot be destroyed by small Tau arms fire), you can expect it to get blow to bits in moments by that railgun. Much better would be a Whirlwind which, as Charn pointed out, can merrily blow the hell out of all those infantry units from the other side of a building. If you really want a battle tank and feel like fielding something extra special, then you could take a Land Raider Prometheus. It's an expensive vehicle for such a small game but it's four twin-linked Heavy Bolters are perfect for mowing down 4+ armoured infantry like Fire Warriors (the likes of which you are facing en masse), you could also use it to transport your Termies into close quarters without fear of them getting cut down by massed Pulse Rifle fire on the way in. I wouldn't recommend any Land Raider varient in a small game, especially when faced with the prospect of surviving the exclusive persecution of a Railgun, but if you want a Tank, then a Raider varient is the one best equipped to stand up to that kind of firepower...also, the only one available to you that can wade into Tau infantry with impunity (Pulse Rifles can't hurt it).

I also agree with Mrgame regarding Assault troops, if you're trying to quickly close the distance and get into close combat, then what could be better than a unit designed for just that? Chuck a couple flamers into the mix and those big infantry squads will be looking a hell of a lot smaller by the time it comes to the assault phase. People say flamers are bad weapons because you can only realistically expect to fire them, at most, a couple times in a game. But if you compare that to your alternative, a plasma pistol or a bolt pistol, you'll only realistically get to fire that three or four times! Personally, I think a dozen or so instant hits that ignore cover is much better than three or four powerful (but potentially self-desructive) shots and a couple extra attacks. Just make sure you don't kill too many of them with the flamers unless you plan to mop them all up with gunfire; you may find yourself out of charge range.

If you really want to take the Termies in such a low-point game, then you should really make them earn their right to be there. Teleport in behind that Hammerhead and chew up the soft rear armour with the Assault Cannon. If you have the points after you've made your modifications to the list, give them the 'Tank-Hunters' special skill (statistically doubles their effectiveness against AV10 and AV11) and give the squad another Assault Cannon. To get another Assault Cannon if you don't already have one though will mean buying another box of Termies or paying the outrageous prices demanded by Battlewagon bitz.
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Old 12 Aug 2006, 10:09   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: help the noob

thanks to all of you for the help, i will probably buy a whirlwind a devastator squad and a assault squad

PS

how do i use a drop pod, do i need to buy the forge world one, if i do it costs way too much


oh and sorry about the double post (i dident know how to edit it)
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Old 12 Aug 2006, 11:00   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: help the noob

Quote:
Originally Posted by blobert
how do i use a drop pod, do i need to buy the forge world one, if i do it costs way too much
Legally you do need to represent the Drop Pod in some way. At 40+ each, the Forge World ones are a tad expensive. You can just make your own from whatever comes to hand really, polystyrene cups, flower pots etc... Try searching for some ideas on the forum, or on the internet. Here's a tutorial I pulled off Google for making cheap Drop Pods from plumbing things - http://www.minivault.com/ModelingDropPods.htm
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Old 12 Aug 2006, 11:22   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: help the noob

thanks , i might try that
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Old 12 Aug 2006, 14:37   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: help the noob

I got mine from an internet shop. Comes to about 30 for three of them! Not Games Workshop quality, but if you just need something to represent drop pods then these are ideal.



(Removed advertising link - Stam)
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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