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The seed begins to grow in my mind
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Old 07 Aug 2006, 18:36   #1 (permalink)
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Default The seed begins to grow in my mind

A chapter based upon a completely mechanized force. This is just in idea stage, but how does this sound:

HQ - whatever
Razorback w/TL lascannon

Troops x whatever number, I'll say 3 squads of tac

each with Razorback w/TL lascannon

heavy - devistator squad w/all HB and ML
razorback w/TL lascannon

2x preditor w/TL autocannon & HB

That's 450pts worth of transports with BS4 TL lascannons. None transport anything, but act as light tanks.

7 tanks on the board! Yeah, I know their armor sucks, but for 20pts, I get two Razorbacks with lascannons for the price of one pred annilator with HB sponsons.

The idea grows, maybe all troops and HQ, and all Razorbacks. No preds, dreds, or other elites...

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Old 08 Aug 2006, 01:49   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The seed begins to grow in my mind

The only problem I see with this is their is not enough "meat" on the board. (You heard me right "meat!"). What this means for people who may not get it is he could just focus his fire on your few transports and kill you in the first turn. If you play a fire warrior heavy tau force you would get slaughtered. First turn the would shoot your tanks and probably destroy them all. then your marines would be forced to foot slog it while being picked off.

I would also recommend not placing your devastators on the razorback. They are to Valuable to waste their time positioning. They need to be placed correctly in deployment to try and conserve valuable shots. Although taking the transport may give you a las cannon, you really have to ask youself, do you really want to spend those points?

Good Idea to have full troops. their isn't too much that can kill a marine heavy army easily. Personally I try to take as many as possible, usually all sixty of them.

When I play with my wolves I usually split them 50/50, half in transports half not. This allows them to have some faster attacking units and still have the mass to absorb the fire.
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Old 08 Aug 2006, 03:27   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The seed begins to grow in my mind

notice none are transported as per my post. Please read it carefully. The idea is not to rush out with razorbacks and get shot up. As for FW, they have 30" and the razorback has 48". I don't think you're contemplating the gravity of my plan on a deaper level. I will explain further tomorrow.

Sleep now.

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Old 08 Aug 2006, 06:03   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The seed begins to grow in my mind

Still the razorback is not a great tank as they go. Transporting or now its going down far too easily much of the time.

One of the best approaches to marines I saw was an armored spearhead. LRC with Terminators formed the spear tip. A predator on either side with 2 razorbacks carrying commander with command squad and another with vets. Then 4 rhinos each with 10 tactical marines. This all formes a triangle with the LRC at its foreward point. First turn they all moved 12" forward and unloaded the troops into the middle of the formation. Which meant the tanks blocked LOS from most of the enemy and if a tank went down its squad wouldnt be entangled. Then the last distance was closed moving 6" and firing. Finally as the distance was closed the tanks fanned left and right and the marines moved into rapid fire. Works well under in many situations, not all but quite a few. The same setup can make use of a number of tactics but the thing to keep in mind with SM armor is that if your going to have it, have lots and have something that draws fire from the lighter tanks and can take it. Such as the preds and the LRC.

Hope that gives you some ideas to work with. Your way could probably work though so if you want go ahead and give it a go. One thing to keep in mind is you still want some heavier armor to take fire from the others and enough "bodies" to form a solid force. One of my biggest troubles when I ran mech Tau was having a lack of simple numbers of troops. Which killed me in missions where I had to hold with scoring units or such as cityfight. You cant go wrong with more troops.

If you do it tell us how it goes.

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Old 08 Aug 2006, 13:24   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The seed begins to grow in my mind

OK, it is morning, and I've had coffee :P

Here is the base theory I'm working on. More targets presented to the enemy means more survival during return fire.

Using the lascannon's range, the BS of the SM, and the TL of the weapon platform, I will be able to initially hide behind terrain then move tactically into firing lanes to enguage enemy vehicles, etc.

The enemy will have fire, lets say I'm fighting Tau, for both medium and long range that can kill the Rback. I won't be able to do much about the crisis MP at the start, but I will begin by outnumbering his tanks 2 or 3 to 1. If he has 4 crisis, 2 HH, and a BS, lets say, then rather than concentrating all his firepower upon 1 or 2 preditors or a landraider, he will have to split his fire amongst many vehicles. The fewer shots a vehicle takes, the less chance of being destroyed right away.

Couple this dilution of fires with Smoke (glancing hit), extra armor (stunned to shaken), and machine spirit (move/shoot while stunned), and suddenly the Tau will have a tough time with the fleet of cheap tanks.

I haven't even mentioned the SM troops which will all have HB, or plasma guns. The devistators with missile launchers, and so on. Now you are talking a force that can return a rate of fire 3 times that of the enemy, AND move tactically while doing so.

I call this concept: Fighting In Sherman Tanks (FIST). Like the WWII tank, the RB becomes a cheap tank that can't compete individually, but come in such numbers and to be more than a match. Quantity over quality

Mind, it is just a theory I'm working on at this point, so I have no data as of yet. But, I am working on RB conversions for my existing 3 rhinos as we speak in order to test it out. If nothing else, it will be fun to explore something new...

I'd like to blog this if the mods allow, since my first step is to build an army list and test it out. Then I will report each step of the theory development. This means I may necro this thread a few times.

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Old 09 Aug 2006, 19:47   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The seed begins to grow in my mind

This might work...if Razorbacks were real tanks. :P

Razorback armor is so weak that even the standard issue weapon for the Tau troops is capable of scoring glancing hits off of the front armor, and that's just for starters. In fact, in most Tau armies the only thing you might see that won't be able to damage the front armor is something like the Kroot...who glance on side or back armor instead.

And this problem isn't just limited to Tau either, litterally any army will probably have enough strength 5+ weapons to annihilate the entire list by turn 3 at the latest.

Giving them an upgrade like power of the machine spirit is even worse, because it takes your already overpriced tin can, and makes it even more expensive.

Nice attempt at thinking outside the box, but I'm afraid that if you used this list, you'll feel like you're on the wrong side of the FISTing. >
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Old 10 Aug 2006, 15:23   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The seed begins to grow in my mind

And this is sort of the point. Of course a 30" weapon that can glance the front would be a threat, but the 48" range of the lascannon overmatches this. The tanks themselves are not alone, and they are not there to fight infantry. The army will contain SM infantry, so threat from small arms is really not as great an issue as it might appear in a vaccuum. Remember, this concept is to displace normal SM tanks with are only marginally better than the RB themselvesd, is more tanks.

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Old 10 Aug 2006, 15:48   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The seed begins to grow in my mind

Good theory but in pratice this wount work man..if you play anyone who knows what they are doing they will b able to counter this list no prob....what do you do vs armies that are hords...wat do you do vs armies who leave the armor at home. Even when you play mech armies (like my sms for example, I just posted mylist here so you can take alook at it.) I can easly counter your tatics by useing cover to my advantage and just out shooting you.
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