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Brothers 500pt Space Marine list
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Old 27 Jul 2006, 16:16   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 647
Default Brothers 500pt Space Marine list

OK, so my brother is new to the game and when he found out that I had an account on TO, he asked me to help him make an army list and post it up here to get your opinion. Being the kind and caring brother to him, I decided to help him create an army list and post it up for him.

Traits: Take the fight to them, Cleanse and Purify
Drawbacks: Eye to Eye, We Stand Alone

HQ:

Captain w/ Power Fist, Storm Bolter, Terminator Honours
= 105pts

Troops:

Marine Squad
6 w/ Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, 1 w/ Metlagun, Vet. Sarge w/ Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Purity Seals
Mounted in Rhino w/ Extra Armour
=220pts

Marine Squad
5 w/ Bolters, 2 w/ Plasma Guns, Vet. Sarge w/ Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Purity Seals
=175pts

Total= 500pts

What do you think?

Snowbird


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Old 27 Jul 2006, 17:16   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 45
Default Re: Brothers 500pt Space Marine list

Scrap the melta gun.


(Why? If your are going to post something, then please include your arguments why he should do that.
Also include what he should remove and what he should then add. - Stam)
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Old 27 Jul 2006, 17:57   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertford, UK
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: Brothers 500pt Space Marine list

HQ 1
Spending points:
  • The Commander might be better off with a power weapon instead of a power fist, so he can make the most of that high initiative.* But if you're really keen to keep the fist in order to dispatch big beasties and vehicles, you might consider a thunder hammer instead.* They cost only 5 points more for a commander and they look damn cool (you don't often see them either).
-5 pts

[hr]

Troops 1
Saving points:
  • I love Meltaguns, but I think Suicide is right (why can't you people just call yourselves Steve, or Dave...* *:).* You're not likely to encounter much armour in a 500 point game and the fists will make short work of it anyway.
  • A Rhino will make this squad die in short order.* Bin it.
Spending points:
  • Perhaps a flamer instead?* It's incredible how underestimated these weapons are.
  • I'd give these chaps frag grenades if I were you.
  • Wanna get your boys to the front quickly and safely?* A drop pod is the key.
+16 pts

Troops 2
Saving points:
  • This is a fire support squad right?* Are you sure you need another big fist?* They're not cheap you know.* If I were you, I'd reduce the Sergeant back down to non-veteran status.* Close combat weapons and rapid-fire weapons don't mix.
Spending points:
  • You underpriced this squad by 5 points; the second plasma gun will cost you 15 points (not 10) because it's replacing a lascannon.
  • Krak grenades will be a nasty surprise for any heavy armour that thinks it can laugh off plasma guns.
+14 pts

[hr]

[size=18pt]Original army list total: 500[/size]
[size=18pt]Total surplus points: 0[/size]

[size=18pt]Total adjustment: +25[/size]

[size=18pt]Army list total after modifications: 475[/size]
[size=18pt]Surplus points after modifications: 25[/size]
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Old 27 Jul 2006, 23:31   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 414
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Default Re: Brothers 500pt Space Marine list

Hey,

First thing, at 500 points you ideally should be playing Combat Patrol games, if you aren't already. Some armies find it incredibly difficult to fit 2 Troops and a single HQ into 500 points (read: Imperial Guard, Necrons), whereas others can do it just fine, and can totally cheese out on the likes of Hammerheads which are very difficult to take down at the best of times. With the Combat Patrol rules, you can keep things manageable and balanced at this points level. However, if you want to use normal mission rules then go for it. Now, onto the list:

HQ 1 - Captain - Slightly overloaded with gear at this points level I reckon. I would drop the Terminator Honours and the Storm Bolter, and replace that with a Bolt Pistol (sacrificing a little range for a 'free' extra attack). If you go for Combat Patrol, I'd probably drop this guy altogether and get another Tactical Squad, or pair of Landspeeders.

Troops 1 - Tactical Squad - I agree with Tom about the Meltagun; drop it to a Flamer for some up-close horde control. I don't agree with Tom about the Rhino however (this appears to be a recurring theme :P), in my experience they are extremely useful in small games like these. They provide mobility, whereas a drop pod doesn't, and are more reliable in certain ways. Before you make the drop in a game like this, you are missing out on almost half of your manpower. If that squad doesn't arrive until turn 3, or even 4, it may be too late for them to be of much use. At least with a Rhino, your squad is on the table, and you don't have to put them in the Rhino, or keep them in it. Critically however, if you do decide to go with Combat Patrol rules, Drop pods are not allowed. I'd also drop the purity seals from the Veteran Sarge, they aren't much use in games like these.

Troops 2 - Tactical Squad - I agree with Tom, get rid of the Fist, and the Veteran Sarge. However, krak grenades? Better than Plasma? Krak Grenades won't touch armour over AV12, and need pretty high rolls to even beat the lower AVs, not to mention that you need to get into close contact with the vehicle in the first place. Total waste of points here.

Points that you save from any of the above changes, I'd simply recommend more Marines in those Tactical Squads or a Landspeeder or two. Troops should be the 'meat and potatoes' of your force at this points level, as they are tough, versatile, (relatively) cheap and are scoring. Something like this:
[hr]

HQ 1 - Captain - Power Fist, Bolt Pistol @ 86 pts
Troops 1 - Tactical Squad - 8 Space Marines (inc. Veteran Sergeant), Flamer, Powerfist @ 156 pts
- Rhino Transport w/ Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers @ 58 pts
Troops 2 - Tactical Squad - 8 Space Marines, 2 Plasmaguns @ 145 pts
Fast Attack 1 - Landspeeder - Heavy Bolter @ 50 pts

Total - 495 pts


Or if you want to go for Combat Patrol rules:
[hr]

Troops 1 - Tactical Squad - 8 Space Marines (inc. Veteran Sergeant), Flamer, Powerfist @ 156 pts
- Rhino Transport w/ Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers @ 58 pts
Troops 2 - Tactical Squad - 8 Space Marines, Plasma Gun @ 130 pts
Troops 3 - Scout Squad - 7 Scouts w/ Bolters, Heavy Bolter, 2 Sniper Rifles @ 106 pts
Fast Attack 1 - Landspeeder - Heavy Bolter @ 50 pts

Total - 500 pts
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Old 28 Jul 2006, 00:08   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertford, UK
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: Brothers 500pt Space Marine list

Well whadda you know? I always though Krak grenades were strengh 8 like their missile launcher counterpart. My mistake, sorry (they're kinda useless aren't they?). :-\

Still gonna fight you on the Rhino issue though. ;D

They 'provide mobility'? A Rhino, all on its own as the only vehicle on the table, just won't make it past turn two. You're deluding yourself if you think it will, especially against Tau. Smoke launchers might be enough to weather the first round of shooting, but you won't make it through another.

People seem to have this bizarre conception that you can mount up in a Rhino and go roaring off to fight someone else once the troops have completed their primary objective; but Rhino's just won't last that long (in such a small game, there's no one else to fight anyway). Drop pods will arrive pretty reliably; with a 50% chance of turning up in the second turn and a 66% chance in the third, you're not likely to have to wait until turn four before it touches down. Rhinos can cover 36" in three turns (as the crow flies), but all the time, they'd be taking fire and in all likelyhood would be destroyed or immobilised before they get where they need to be. Drop pods may scatter, but they have an unlimited range and they're completely safe (as long as you plant them 12" from the table edge). You can even fit them out with a deathwind launcher for an additional 20 points. There aren't many strength 5 pies plate chuckers out there for this kind of price (BS 2 though).

Charns strongest argument against drop pods is certainly their poor reliability, but there is absolutely no reason you should take a Rhino. As a transport, it'll be blown to bits in moments, taking the passengers with it. And as rolling cover it's a waste of points...you could buy another three marines with that! Vehicles also have a nasty tendancy to blow up too, further limiting their usefulness as rolling cover.

Of the two transport options discussed here, I still feel as though the drop pod is the strongest.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 28 Jul 2006, 00:20   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,246
Default Re: Brothers 500pt Space Marine list

Krak Grenades basically give you a Strength 6 attack.

Helpful for Imperial Guard, but not so much for Space Marines. As most heavier weapons, or power fists, are much better.
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