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In American Society what should be the less accepted flag or even banned?
View Poll Results: In America which flag should be banned or shouldn't be a readly accepted flag?
Confederate Flag 1 5.26%
Nazi Germany Flag 17 89.47%
Don't tread on me flag 0 0%
Original 13 colonies Flag 1 5.26%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18 Apr 2010, 22:08   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default In American Society what should be the less accepted flag or even banned?

Please don't flame on this topic. This subject is very touché. I live in the south and see confederate flags all over the place. I kinda want to hear differant justifications and so forth from an Americans point of view. People from other countries can reply but I'm kinda looking at an American impact. Cause certain countries gave money to the confederates and the flag just don't mean the same in other countries.

Nazi Flag: This one really don't need a review. German dictator that wanted to kill everyone that wasn't the supreme race. Took icons from Norse myth and possibly budda symbols. Commonly used as a symbol of hate.

Confederate Flag: I can really go into this one.
1. At the time is was used to represent breaking away from America to be another country. Trully unamerican as you can get.
2. It's a symbol of forming a differant America
3. Symbol of who lost the civil war.
4. Can be argued as a pro slavery flag

IMO I hear it represents southeren pride. I'll give you that if the flag was made long before the south decided to rebel against the government. As above it's used by hate groups as well.

3. Don't tread on me: it's being used as an anti Obama flag. But it kinda represents breaking away from britian.

4. 13 colony flag: I'm not born in the 13 colonies and think they can be stuck up reminidung everybody that they are the original states.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 22:34   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accpted flag?

Moved to SD - its more serious debate than random messing around.

Play nice everyone!

[hr]


I don't think you can ban flags, exactly, although it depends how they are being used. The nazi flag in a historical context, fine. But hung out by some racist who thinks Hitler is an alright dude? Sorry, I don't like that.


As for your examples.

Nazi Flag - Yeah, ban it. Aside from any historical context, flying it is just a symbol of hate now.

Confederate flag - Don't ban it. Maybe its my englishness, but I don't see the big deal. It wasn't just about slavery, it has other meanings and a lot of pride for southern states.

Don't tread on me - never heard of it.

13 Colony Flag - I thought that was what the current American flag was, with a few modifications.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 22:45   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accpted flag?

In my opinion the only Flag out of that group that doesn't fit is the flag of the Nazi Party, considering that the Confederate Flag is a part of American history (southern states and pride), the Gadsden Flag is an early USMC Flag and the 13 Colonies is likewise a part of American history.

This all being said I don't think they should be used in place of the American Flag (duh) but as a secondary, under the primary flag and what not, I can see it working.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 22:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accpted flag?

I see no reason to ban the Don't Tread On Me nor the 13 Original Colonies flags in the least. Those are entirely patriotic, inoffensive relics of colonial America.

The southern flag really isn't just about slavery, no, not any more than the entire war was. It shouldn't be banned. Though it is almost exclusively flown by the worst of the rednecks, it is for some a symbol of pride and not of hate.

Nazi Germany though should probably not be allowed. The swastika itself certainly has a history of peace, yes, and in a normal flag it might not even be noticed as offensive, but a red and white and black swastika has no reason to be flown.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 22:57   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accpted flag?

I support freedom of expression. Banning flags is silly; you don't need a swastika to be racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
13 colony flag: I'm not born in the 13 colonies and think they can be stuck up reminidung everybody that they are the original states.
You realize our current flag has 13 stripes for the 13 original colonies, right? Would you ban that too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe
Don't tread on me - never heard of it.
He means the Gadsden Flag


It used to be the flag for the US Marine Corps. Now it's used by the tea party movement to protest unbridled government spending.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOXsT_63h04

It's also used by Sarah Palin to further her political career and Fox News to condemn Obama. Let me get one thing straight: Sarah Palin ran with a populist and Fox News backed a populist in the last election. Populists like big government. The tea party movement likes small government. Fox News and Sarah Palin are without principle and do not represent the tea party movement.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 23:08   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accpted flag?

The Tea Party stuff is just idiocy, and they aren't doing anything illegal. No need to ban anything associated with it. No one really uses the older American flags for anything, so they are also pretty innocuous.

The Confederate flag (or really the Battle Flag of the Confederacy/Naval Flag, since the actual national flag doesn't get much use). It has cultural associations that are not very well understood outside of the South. It is not a symbol of slavery or white supremacy, although it can be used as such. I don't think any good could come from banning it, though.
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Old 18 Apr 2010, 23:10   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accpted flag?

Been doing a lot of reading on World War II and I would put the Nazi flag and it's variants as the worst of the lot. By variants I mean the flags Fascist parties in the countries the Nazi's conquered took. These tended to be the same red with white circle arrangment, but with varying diffrent black symbols in the centre.

The confederate flag, is a bit mixed. One one hand I can see why some would dislike it both for it's history and it's current use by some. It is though a bit like the old USSR flag, dependant on who you are/wehre you are. I can understant the hate of it, but...*shrug*

The other two, no problems. I'd be more upset that the groups in question are upserping the traditions of these flags for thier own ends.
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Old 19 Apr 2010, 00:33   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accpted flag?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapter Master Seth
I see no reason to ban the Don't Tread On Me nor the 13 Original Colonies flags in the least. Those are entirely patriotic, inoffensive relics of colonial America.
That's my opinion. I had no idea why you (OP) put those even as options until I read your 'explanation'. They don't mean pro-slavery in the least... to me that is. It's true that at those times slavery was 'legal', but, well I have only ever known those flags as patriotic flags used during the Revolution... like Spiritbw said, I think people digging up those flags for their own uses is more disturbing than what they're using it for :P

[hr]
As for Confederate vs. Nazi, I don't see a competition. If one were to be banned it would be the Nazi flag hands down. Like people have said, there are multiple ways to view the Confederate flag and not all are about racism or "anti-Americanism". There are certainly unfavorable uses and connotations but IMO it's nowhere near the Nazi flag.
[hr]
As for outright banning either/any of them, well, unfortunately that's in direct contradiction with the 1st. I'm not saying I approve of the views they can represent but... :huh:... it's a tough situation. I'm not equipped to make that call :P
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Old 19 Apr 2010, 01:51   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accepted flag?

With the confederate flag I see it as a sign of treason. Treason is a punishable offense and the flag represent that. But I could see it as the brittish banning the American flag if the brittish actually won and brought back America into the fold.

The last two flags I threw in there just so it wouldn't be just the Nazi flag and the confederate flag.

The confederate flag would have less meaning for those in other countries while the Nazi flag is more universal.
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Old 19 Apr 2010, 02:04   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: In American Society what should be the less accepted flag?

There was no none of the above option. No flag should be banned in the US.

I agree with about everything said.


I live in the south so I see the confederate flag quite a bit. Nowadays people use it more for a "I'm a redneck" than they do anything else. And those people take pride in being rednecks. There are plenty of people with southern pride who still don't tote it around, even in the south where it is accepted it is still seen as somewhat tacky. Blacks sometimes have a problem with it, and assume anyone with it is racist but honestly it has nothing to do with that. Personally when I see it I make an immediate assumption the person has an IQ under 90(not mentally handicapped but obviously a few marbles short of the average Joe), but thats just me and sometimes I'm wrong... rarely.

I think the reason racists sometimes use it is not that it is a symbol of racism, but that all those people fall into that IQ<90 category so they happen to have the flag anyways. Just IMO.

And it is NOT unamerican. The people who carry around the Confederate flag are often some of the most gun ho patriots you will ever meet. They had/have no problem with the USA, they had/have a problem with the northern states. The common terminology is 'northern aggression'. They believed the north was trying to push things down their throat and they were tired of it. Lets say the south did break off, and then 5-10 years later the north was attacked by a foreign nation... I can say without any doubt the confederacy would have allied itself with the north in that war. They didn't hate the USA, they basically just came to the conclusion that they were at to big a disagreement to fix democratically so they sought to split it.

Quote:
4. 13 colony flag: I'm not born in the 13 colonies and think they can be stuck up reminidung everybody that they are the original states.
Ummmm... they were. I have never met a single person in my entire life who was stuck up because they were born in NC vs Cali, or Virginia vs Alaska. There are those people from NY, but thats just NY, it has nothing to do with the other 12. Those 13 have more history, more historical locations, and the 13 stripes, but its been so long I don't think anyone really cares about it. Its not like there are people running around with flags with only 13 stars because they hate the rest of the country.

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