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The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 12:50   #1 (permalink)
Zen
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Default The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

For more than a week, Israel has bombard the Gaza Strip in response to Hamas's Rocket Attack since the Truce has ended around December. The Israeli Bombardment has targeted Hamas Buildings, Members of the Hamas Government and the Network Tunnels that supply Hamas weapons and ammunition as well as provide the civilian population with a vital life line with essential needs. In the Israeli Attacks, more than 500 Palestinians are dead with another 1000+ wounded. If that wasn't bad enough, the Israeli Blockade has stopped essential medical supplies from reaching the hospitals but even then they're already under supplied for months. Now, the Israeli Army has called up their Reservist and currently moving into the Gaza Strip with the objective of stopping the Rocket Attacks by Hamas. International response has been harsh but toothless as always. Protest is currently ongoing around the world. While some countries say out loud their grievances, others keep quiet not wanting their own government to draw hate from their own people as well as the International Community that condemn the attacks as they support the attack on Gaza.

Well, this is a total surprise. Yet again, Hamas is leading the Palestinians (well, the ones on their side) into Chaos and Destruction as they invited the wrath of Israel with their Rocket attacks. Israel attacks has somewhat caused a very high collateral damage. More than usual. Even with their "High Tech" Missiles and their Laser Guided Bombs and whatever doohickey they made so they can "precisely" hit their target and cause less collateral damage. Now, with the people angered by Israel's extreme use of force. Hamas now has 500,000 (more or less. Assuming they're all angry at Israel instead of Hamas who has instigated the war and refused to renew the Truce) people to fight alongside them as the Israeli Army pushes into the Gaza Strip. As everybody will expect, the Hamas Militia will use Urban Guerrilla Warfare to fight the well-trained and better armed Israeli Troops and their mighty Merkava Tank. This will draw the Israeli Army into a protracted war assuming that Israel has failed to force Hamas to come to the Negotiation Table. Now, any outcome will certainly cause a a paradigm, what C_V call, in their Social Psychology. As this conflict will certainly adds fuel the fire to what I call Radical Islam.

Discuss.

P.S.: Anyone got numbers of Israeli casualties from Hamas Rocket Attacks? Can't find it when the numbers of death and casualties from the Palestinian side is drowning it out.
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 13:14   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

According to Israeli sources, the number of Israeli casualties from rocket and mortar attacks since December 27th is:

[spoiler]5[/spoiler]

60% of that number were civilians...40% were soldiers.

Those figures come from the Israeli ministry of foreign affairs website and I think we can take them as fairly accurate - after all they'd hardly underestimate the number of Israeli casualties, given their justification for the Gaza conflict.

Now, as for pre-December 27th casualties...I'm not sure. The sources I'm finding are suggesting that although rockets were still fired at Israel during the ceasefire period, the last time an Israeli citizen was actually killed by one of them was back in July. I'll keep searching and see if I can confirm (or deny) that.
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 13:18   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

This is sadly, a huge lesson in stupidity.

I kinda support Israel, they have a right to strike back against the attacks on their homeland. But they must be prepared to stand down immediately should a truce be on the table.

From what I understand of this round of the Gaza crazies, it was Hamas who struck first, by starting the recent rocket attacks. Sadly, they are hiding in the midst of the civilians, meaning there will be collateral when Israel hits back.

This obviously goes a lot deeper than just this incident, but Hamas needs to back off otherwise Israel will feel justified continuing their offensive.

What is needed is for the palestinians to realise that this is happening not because Israel hates them, but that it is defending itself against aggression. If the people turn against Hamas, then Hamas loses.

I can't find solid information on the Israeli casualties, but its been something like 1 soldier dead and 3 wounded since they rolled in.
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 14:25   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

Israel is commiting nothing less than an act of genocide and if they weren't riding on the coattails of their own sufferings and the unconditional support of the US they would have long been internationally opposed.

The people living in Gaza, they have little food, water, electricity, healthcare. No prospects of a future or education. Their only social works and support comes from Hamas, who contrary to popular belief actually spends a rather large portion to do what they can for the meagre civilian existence in Gaza. Israel forces them to subsist for generations like animals. Under that situation who would you support, as an average Palestinian? Israel or Hamas?

Even assuming it was Hamas who broke the ceasefire first, and this is looking like it's in doubt too, Israel's responces is neither responsible nor proportional. That's what you're MEANT TO DO when you're the powerful country with all the bargaining chips. If I'm an adult, and the neighbour's kid kicks me in the leg, do I grab him by the collar, break his spine over my knee and leave him within an inch of his life?


And let's not even get started on the list of human right abuses on a per capita basis Israel commits which would make China and Russia put together quake in righteous anger. Kidnappings of civilians, assassinations, firing rubber bullets at CHILDREN protestors, brutal arrest and beatings of peaceful protestors.


THEY'RE the ones with the nukes, the army, the tanks, the navy, the 900 unit strong airforce, unilateral backing of the world's greatest military power. What are they caging and slowly killing off? 1.5 million people in what is essentially a walled in refugee camp with a few toy defective rockets, no food, water, medicine, electricity (courtesy of the Israeli blockade).


Also, this Hamas blaming is ridiculous. They're not the best organization, but if you're talking about scales of terrorism, scales of injury and grief caused on civilian populations, then if the Hamas deserves retribution like this then every man and woman of the IDF should be tried for crimes against humanity and hanged.


Over 25% of current casualties are civilian on the palestinian side, OVER 40% OF THE GAZA RESIDENTS ARE CHILDREN!


The IDF is starving hundreds and thousands of children to death whilst systematically destroying their homes, mosques, hospitals, infrastructure and even a university, whilst the rest of the world watches. Don't even pretend these attacks are discriminatory or retributive in nature. It's not how Israel works and hasn't been for a long time. Take Black September for example. They massacred 11 Israeli hostages, Israel uses this as an excuse to wiped out the entirety of Europe's moderate, anti-terrorism PLO leadership.


Hamas may be a monster, but it's a monster of Israel's making. Israel completely decimated and slaughtered the PLO, the only Palestinian force still prepared to recognize Israel as a state, so now it can deal with Hamas.


(it's awfully late today, I'll find corresponding sources tommorow, but there is a HUGE repository of information backing up my claims and sentiments, I've had friends actually work for humanitarian purposes on the West Bank, I've seen raw unedited videos of an 11 year old kid protesting shot to death by rubber bullets, this so called Israeli-Palestinian conflict is about as fair and reasonable as the Massacre at Wounded Knee.)


edit: for everybody claiming Hamas broke the ceasefire by killing one civilian, if that counts as breaking a ceasefire, what does this count as?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...hepalestinians

And Israel wasn't having around hundreds of thousands of it's own CHILDREN being starved to death because the enemy won't let in humanitarian aid packages.
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 14:32   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

Quote:
The IDF is starving hundreds and thousands of children to death whilst systematically destroying their homes, mosques, hospitals, infrastructure and even a university, whilst the rest of the world watches. Don't even pretend these attacks are discriminatory or retributive in nature. It's not how Israel works and hasn't been for a long time. Take Black September for example. They massacred 11 Israeli hostages, Israel uses this as an excuse to wiped out the entirety of Europe's moderate, anti-terrorism PLO leadership.


Hamas may be a monster, but it's a monster of Israel's making. Israel completely decimated and slaughtered the PLO, the only Palestinian force still prepared to recognize Israel as a state, so now it can deal with Hamas.


(it's awfully late today, I'll find corresponding sources tommorow, but there is a HUGE repository of information backing up my claims and sentiments, I've had friends actually work for humanitarian purposes on the West Bank, I've seen raw unedited videos of an 11 year old kid protesting shot to death by rubber bullets, this so called Israeli-Palestinian conflict is about as fair and reasonable as the Massacre at Wounded Knee.)
By all means, yeah. I'm not in the know with regards to Gaza, so if I'm wrong, point me right

[hr]

A lot of countries are opposing this, I know our own Brown has spoken strong words (:) and that there have been protests outside downing street, with shoes thrown at the door (naturally, we control Israel, so the protests are working :)

However, with the support of the US, Israel is unlikely to back down because of what other countries are saying.
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 14:38   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

Well, can only make a short post as I've got a meeting in a couple of minutes - but a friend of the family has lived in Israel for much of her life, and she says the media over here is quite biased against Israel. She says there are rocket attacks all the time against it, and it sits and does nothing. When it eventually retaliates there is lots of media coverage.

To be honest, if people started rocketing Britain, they would probably be instantly flattened into a sheet of glass. Ok, slight exaggeration, but there would be severe retaliation and I doubt many would question it.

At the end of the day, I see little point in defending either side. According to the Bible all the countries will unite against Israel eventually, so I guess it's inevitable and I should expect it. Just not looking forward to it. :P
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 14:40   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

Quote:
edit: for everybody claiming Hamas broke the ceasefire by killing one civilian, if that counts as breaking a ceasefire, what does this count as?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...hepalestinians

And Israel wasn't having around hundreds of thousands of it's own CHILDREN being starved to death because the enemy won't let in humanitarian aid packages.
Gah! I forgotten about that one.

But who dares to take action against Israel? We know most countries are relatively toothless especially when the US is backing them.
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 15:10   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

personally I feel I have to side with Israel here too. They have tried peace, and they still have to suffer attacks from terrorists or whatever, and nobody is really trying to stop it. Other countries would never suffer through any where near as much before invading. And if the rest of that area had their way they would exterminate Israel without even batting an eye. So I say F' em sadly. If I walked by someones house every day an threw a rock through their window for years, when they finally came to burn my house down, I couldn't really cry too hard for sympathy.
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Old 05 Jan 2009, 15:59   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

I'd side with Israel here. See, Israel is a democracy, where women have rights and girls get an education. In stark contrast, Hamas stones women, gays and is not a democracy.

Plus, despite everything, Israel's attacks are all pinpointed. They raided a house. Hamas then fired rockets indiscrimately into Israel. Palestinian civilians die because Hamas hides behind them.

Israel has a strong military because it is surrounded by its enemies(Lebanon and Syria refuse to recognise it as a state). If I was in that situation, a strong military would help me sleep at night.

Clear as day to me - Democracy vs Lunacy. Islamo-Fascists like Hamas should not be tolerated in the modern world.









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Old 05 Jan 2009, 16:18   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Invasion of Gaza..........yet again......

I have a strong stance against the Israeli aggression. At the same time I condemn the Hamas missile attacks. My support lies with the civilian population.
But from what I have seen these last days have made my blood boil.

You stuff 1,6 million people into 150 square kilometers. You cut the people away from their farms and work. You bomb their schools, their hospitals, ambulances, their jails and police stations. Their power plants and all other means of infrastructure. Water, fuel, food, electricity, medical supplies, and other means to keep people alive are denied and stopped at the boarder.

And with so many people in one place, where are there places to hide? The death toll is now over 500 dead and 2300 wounded. And guess what, most of them are civilians.

The same time journalists are being prevented to cover the assault. Giving the IDF room to do whatever they want.

With all this hell against such a small population, there is no friggin wonder that some wish to strike back.

I have no love, whatsoever, towards the Israeli state. What it now does is government-sanctioned genocide.

"Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one."
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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