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Locked digression about the war or something...
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 09:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Locked digression about the war or something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer_Emlyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faolin
I'll the the first to admit not knowing a great deal about the US economy (or finance in general for that matter), but this whole "government doesen't care about us because they support big coporations" argument dosen't seem to stand up.

I was under the impression that it wasn't so much the fall of big giants, but the ripple effect it would have on the rest of the stock market that was the main issue with these bailouts. If the big ones fall over, the smaller ones follow suit, and eventually it will get to the point where everyone suffers. Ie: The Great Depression. The poorest people were hit the hardest.

If I'm missing something, please point it out.
You are on point. However, I think the gist of the comment you're talking about was that our government bails out the banking industry for hundreds of millions of dollars, spends billions in Iraq, routinely saves companies like Amtrack or the Air industry, offers tax breaks for oil companies...but somehow we can't afford universal health care for the people. :

Don't even get me started on aging infrastructure, education costs, retirement costs or anything else that could be fixed in the blink of an eye. The point is that the US can afford this stuff...but doesn't do it because we've got some allergy to Socialism in spite of the fact that we are already deep into a transition to a Socialist economy.
Hey you know, I'm perfectly happy with putting our country into massive debt so we can go bomb anonymous brown people halfway around the world but SO HELP ME IF ONE OF MY TAX DOLLARS GOES TOWARDS TEACHING A CHILD TO READ OR CURING A SICK PERSON!


Damn Lizard-Jew controlled Health-Education complex.

[Edit] Title fixed [/Edit]
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 12:55   #2 (permalink)
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Default Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

If only thats what it really went to.

I would much rather that my money funds my brothers body armor and ammo while he and thusands of other soldiers defend the nation from terrorists than funds a drug addicts medical attention or the money bloated teachers union.

Money will not solve the education problem, but it can buy better equipment for our soldiers.
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 15:29   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vall
If only thats what it really went to.

I would much rather that my money funds my brothers body armor and ammo while he and thusands of other soldiers defend the nation from terrorists than funds a drug addicts medical attention or the money bloated teachers union.

Money will not solve the education problem, but it can buy better equipment for our soldiers.
Iraq wasnt about terrorisum. Afganistan was. Saddam was not supporting Terrorists, and had nothing to do with 9/11. Thats a fact.

Iraq was about "liberating" them and giving them freedom and democracey. Meanwhile Texas exicutes more people in prisons then most countries in the world (USA fith highest nation world wide for executions), and the US puts more of its own people in prison then any other nation world wide.
http://sentencing.typepad.com/senten...ng-execut.html
http://daily.iflove.com/world/2008-0...nt_6494924.htm

Your tax dollars are going by the trillion to a war that doesnt protect you, and financial bailouts that dont keep you from being homeless.

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Old 24 Sep 2008, 16:23   #4 (permalink)
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Default Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

Iraq wasn't about terrorism. It was a conventional war against a hostile power. It is most certainly about terrorism now, so it is irrelevant what the original goal was.

Maybe more people are imprisoned because we have more effective law enforcement agencies? It certainly isn't the courts, because they let most criminals walk.

If you want to pay for NEA executives yachts and vacations to cambodia, that's fine by me, but unfortunately the tax system doesn't let us choose where our money goes, so I would much rather that my money go towards fighting the war on terror which includes the battle for Iraq (which is going well last I checked).

bailouts are a different matter. I'm not sure what President Bush is thinking by cooperating with Congress on this. Bipartisanship is an absurd goal. The Democratic party must be stopped at all costs from transforming us into a nanny state.
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 17:51   #5 (permalink)
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Default Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vall
Iraq wasn't about terrorism. It was a conventional war against a hostile power. It is most certainly about terrorism now, so it is irrelevant what the original goal was.
Hostile power your foot. :

Hostile to Israel is more like it, but that saying...oh wait...Didn't Daddy Bush cripple the Iraqis so much that 50% of the Iraqination does not have the basic requirements to live? Wait...that means...you can potentially cripple any threat from them, as they are undergunned, malnourished, and definitely not living properly.

Yeah threat to the Star-Spangled banner indeed. Your war in Iraq causes the insurgency to call forth all Jihadi-Salafist from all around the whole damn Islamic world to fight in what religion calls a cosmic battle of good and evil.

Quote:
If you want to pay for NEA executives yachts and vacations to cambodia, that's fine by me, but unfortunately the tax system doesn't let us choose where our money goes, so I would much rather that my money go towards fighting the war on terror which includes the battle for Iraq (which is going well last I checked).
I laugh at you for thinking that, sorry Sherlock Holmes.

The war is not going well, and even Bush realize that the more protracted this war goes, the less likely he will win. He predicted that the iraqi insirgency will be over by 2005, but even until 2008 it has not and it is actually strengthened. A war of will is only won by those that can put out more determination than the other, and it is most definitely the Insurgents. The American people does not support the war and are hoping for a change, while the Radicals of the Islam world is financing what they call a fight against the Devil.

Enjoy wasting your money, and then you look back and see your rundown nation and say "Shtlk, I should have financed my nation in terms of econmoic development than douing some half-arsed war". :
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 18:41   #6 (permalink)
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Default Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

Crisis, I'm sorry but you really don't know the first thing about the battle for Iraq.

Iraq was hostile to Israel, who happens to be our only ally in the Mid-East.
Iraq was also hostile to the United States, and condoned terrorism.
Libya was too, but we didn't have to invade them. All we had to do was rough up the Iraqi military in a matter of days and they bent over and took it.

Al Quaeda has been leveled. They saw Iraq as an opportunity for a guerrilla war against the United States. They caught us off guard at first, but once we reinforced, we destroyed them. Al Quaeda is on the run, the Iraq army is now competent, and the Iraqi people have turned against them.

Our next target should be Pakistan where Al Quaeda is regrouping.
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 18:55   #7 (permalink)
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Default Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vall
Our next target should be Pakistan where Al Quaeda is regrouping.
...Ya I don't know about the rest of you guys but this line of thought seems very dangerous to me...
It would seem to me that if the U.S. goes after Pakistan next, by the end of that another middle-eastern country will be selected as another target and so on and so on... I'm getting pretty sick of the U.S. trying to spin this into them acting up as a global police force. The money wasted in these operations could be better spent solving the U.S.'s problems first.
War should be the very last thing on anyone's mind, especially if they want to maintain their claim of spreading democracy and "liberating" countries.

This farce in Iraq has gone on for far too long...
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 19:08   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

This topic is way off topic. A mod should split it.

Quote:
Iraq was hostile to Israel, who happens to be our only ally in the Mid-East.
Iraq was also hostile to the United States, and condoned terrorism.
Libya was too, but we didn't have to invade them. All we had to do was rough up the Iraqi military in a matter of days and they bent over and took it.
Sorry, but this line of "logic" doesn't work. 1) Iraq didn't have WMD's as the Bush Administration claimed. 2) Iraq didn't have connections to 9/11 as the Bush Administration claimed. 3) Other countries (like Iran and Syria) are also threats to Israel...why don't we invade them?

It just doesn't hold up to criticism. The Pentagon has said the WMD's weren't there, the 9/11 commission said Iraq had nothing to do with it, the Pentagon admitted that the Army screwed up the post invasion peace-keeping which led to this mess.

Quote:
Al Quaeda has been leveled. They saw Iraq as an opportunity for a guerrilla war against the United States. They caught us off guard at first, but once we reinforced, we destroyed them. Al Quaeda is on the run, the Iraq army is now competent, and the Iraqi people have turned against them.
Recent Government reports say that Al Quaeda is, if anything, stabilizing or growing. They are gaining ground in Afganistan and Pakistan. They have a foothold in Iraq. I fail to see how they have been "levelled". The problem is that we had to commit so much material, money and men to the Iraq debacle that we were left unable to prosecute the war in Afganistan appropriately. Our alleged forray into Pakistan certainly won't help things either. :

If we are going to attack Al Quaeda in every country they are in, why don't we attack Somolia, Syria, Pakistan, Indonesia, India, Iran...need I go on? If we are going to attack every country that is proliferating WMD's, why don't we attack Pakistan, India, Iran, North Korea...

See? This is very dangerous territory.
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 19:12   #9 (permalink)
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Default Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

Emlyn, check your facts.

This summer I believe it was around 200 pounds of "yellow cake" were discovered in Iraq. Maybe more(only thing I remember is the 2, and it was greater than 20 :P)

Throughout the years chemical weapons stashes have been found.
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Old 25 Sep 2008, 15:33   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Anyone worried about the American bank "buyouts"

I think Emlyn's facts are quite right. While various chemical weapons have been found in Iraq, it is now thought by the vast majority of chemical weapons inspectors that these constitute only the remains of Iraq's chemical weapons program from the 1980s - early 1990s. Nothing has been found in any significant quantity to even begin to support the extremely strong accusations of the American and British governments pre-2003 that Iraq had a full scale chemical weapons program.

I don't know about the Pentagon but it is an undisputable fact that the CIA have publically said that they were unable to find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/
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