[JBunny]

After reading an article about 3 students that got banned from their own graduation for displaying the Confederate Battle Flag, it got me thinking.

Are you offended by the flag?

Should the students have been punished for flying the flag?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5005519&page=1

Please read and discuss.

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

The school's principal, Ron Simmons, who is black, made the decision to suspend the trio and ban them from the commencement, a decision school district officials affirmed.

Well, if it was the other way round, this would have been racist :

Its pathetic, stupid, and the people who made this decision should be ashamed of themselves. I don't know if America has issues flying the confed flag - I don't see it as a problem.

That said, count yourselves lucky - we are not allowed to fly the St. Georges flag here, as it incited racist tensions. In our own damn country, we cannot fly our own flag.

[deraj]

I don't think it's right to fly the Confederate flag. We are one country, not two. People try to make it out to be ok, saying it "Signifies states rights." Thats a load of crap. It signifies that the south wanted to keep slaves, and they wanted everyone else to have slaves. Most people don't know that the North never wanted to get rid of slavery until the end of the war. The reason it began was that a bill was passed stating that no new states would enter with slavery. We werent trying to take away slaves. It signifies disunity, treachery, and dissent.

[khanaris]

I will have to check the link later, but I really don't think so. They have become a symbol for a culture in our country that is looking for expression. They also have a history that more Americans should understand. The country that flag represented was about a lot more than slavery. That was only one part of the events that led to the American Civil War. People have a knee-jerk reaction to them today that I don't think is healthy. We have enough protections in our society to prevent racism against minorities. We don't need to stifle expression further in order to support that.

[deraj]

There was never a confederate flag before the war though. They disagreed with a vote in a government they were part of, and helped create, which would harm them in no way. They were simply to greedy and wanted to control the nation, rather than allow a majority rule.
And beside, "Battle Flag" it symbolizes war. With whom? The north, part of their own country. So they want to fly a flag symbolizing an attack on America?

[thedestroyerofworlds]

It all depends on the circumstances of them flying the flag if they were trying to be rasict than yes, I do. But otherwise no I don't.

[JBunny]

Originally Posted by Deraj

There was never a confederate flag before the war though. They disagreed with a vote in a government they were part of, and helped create, which would harm them in no way. They were simply to greedy and wanted to control the nation, rather than allow a majority rule.
And beside, "Battle Flag" it symbolizes war. With whom? The north, part of their own country. So they want to fly a flag symbolizing an attack on America?

Was there a Stars and Stripes before America left England?

The American Civil war was about more than just slavery. I am not saying it had nothing to do about it, but it was not the deciding factor. One of the main issues dealt with the more popular states telling the rural states how they were suppose to run their lives.

The flag does not symbolize battle. The Confederate Battle flag came about because the Southern Flag looked too much like the American flag and with all of the smoke from the guns, you could not tell which side a unit belonged to. That's why the battle flag was used.

The fact that slavery was not outlawed until after the war is a major indication that it was not just about slavery.

[khanaris]

I would say that little of it was ultimately about slavery, although that is how modern history classes often present it. That was a sticking point because it represented a significant difference between the economies of the North and the South. The North was imposing a moral decision that would only have negative economic consequences for the South. But the South was moving away from slavery even before the war.

In this country we have always had to balance the idea of a federation of independent states with the idea of an overarching federal identity. We have grown up in a society that sees us as Americans first, but that was not always the case. At the time of the American Civil War, the identity of the States was stronger than that of the nation as a whole. Our national identity didn't really solidify into its current form until the World Wars. But if you lived in Virginia in 1954, you were a Virginian first and then an American. And the Southern states resisted the control being imposed upon them by the North, which at that time was a very different culture.

The Confederate flag today should not be a symbol of racism. It has been tied to that because a lot of the people who used it as a symbol of Southern identity were also associated with White Supremacy movements (which incidentally were significantly more active after the Civil War). But it is not a burning cross.

I think it really is a symbol of identity, or solidarity for one part of the United States. I think there are a lot of rather silly things about the American South and its culture, but I respect their need for an identity apart from that of the nation as a whole or their individual states. A lot of the men who died for the Confederacy owned no slaves, and some of them were even staunch abolitionists. And those who fought on that side of the war were still Americans. I think we do them a disservice by making their flag a taboo.

[crazedmongoose2003]

.....isn't the flag technically kiiiiinnda a symbol of um.....you know......treason against the United States?


I don't think the flag is racist in the same way I don't think the Swastika is anti-semitic. That is, yeah the symbol itself wasn't original intended to be racist, but through it's use and context of use by it's followers, it starts carrying racist connotations.


Also there's the small matter that according to my friends from the US, pretty much anecdotally, every single person they've ever known to fly the Confederate Flag also happens to be a flaming racist.

[Ge. Stankov]

This is a good topic for me, I think, because not only do I consider myself a staunch American patriot, I also have a small Confederate battle flag I display on my wall.

Now, I'll be perfectly frank. If I was African American, I'd be pretty pissed if someone was flying it. My first thought would be that that person is a racist. And often times, to some extent, they would be correct.

However, I am quite positive I am not a racist. My best friend is an amalgation of North African/Middle Eastern and Jewish. I am very careful that I never display it in front of him.

I think the real issue is that something like the rebel flag, be it the battle flag, the navy jack, bonnie blue, or even the CSA flag, all can each represent wildly different things.

For instance, I was born in the South in America. I hold a certain level of pride on being a Southerner. I look at it as part of my person; just something I like to brag about to my buddies.

As far as I'm concerned with racism and slavery and reperations and all that jazz:

I get a kick out of a particularly racist teacher at my school (she doesn't teach me, thank God). She's an African American, and, unfortunately, not very bright. She's one of those people that thinks because she's African American, she should be allowed special privelages. Now, I'm certainly not saying by any stretch of the imagination that African Americans are in any way inferior. What I am saying is that this woman is a plain old idiot. She really is stupid.

One of her most famous lines is "200 years of slavery for this?" The first time I heard her say it, it was in regards to the price of a lunch in the cafeteria.

She genuinely hates white people. I've always wanted to spark an arguement with her, just so she can pull a line like "Your people enslaved my people"

Such attitudes only draw out racism in America.

Racism should have never been a problem after Dr. King. He solved the problem, but extremist groups both white and black have drawn out this issue, so much so that we still believe it to be real today.

The Confederate flag means nothing more to me than shouting "Hey look at me, I was born south of the Mason-Dixon line! I love biscuits, gravy, fried chicken, and big family reunions! I love to hunt and fish, keep and bear arms, and celebrate America's birthday by blowing stuff up!"

Unfortunately, the American flag is somewhat too revered to be used for this purpose. When I hang my American flags around my property, they say I honor and respect the sacrifice of those who gave thier lives in war for my freedom.

Put very simply, the whole American idea is that we have the freedom to hang a Confederate flag wherever we want. If that offends someone, let those two people work it out. Don't get the government involved. If anyone ever asked me to take it down because it offends them (not because it offends others, just them), I would do it with a smile on my face.

But frankly, this little incident is just one more step to censorship. I am disgusted.

Stankov