[Black Behemoth]

History has taught us that civilizations need government to thrive. As nomads, people were weak. Those nomadic tribes, such as the Egyptians in the west and the Mongols in the east, and even with the Maya and Aztecs in the Americas, became major nations once they instituted a government. However, history has also taught us that some forms of government are less effective. What form of government do you think would be the best, and why?

I believe that a democratic socialism would be perfect. Capitalism is hard to maintain, and can allow for a lot of corruption, as we have seen in my home country of America. Because of capitalism, the USA is starting to lose power as corporations go overseas. With the government in control of the economy, the economy cannot fail if the right leader is in power. However, many socialisms have fell due to tyranical leaders, which is where democracy comes in. An election of popular vote of the people will decide on a senate with 2 year terms of office for each senator. Twenty different states/provinces will have their own elections on who will run, like how the republicans and democrats do that in the presidental elections. Then, ten out of the twenty are elected to be senators. To open buisnesses, you have to get certified with the government and follow their rules. The "socialism" aspect will not be as strict as the many communist nations, but strict enough to prevent corruption and economic breakdown. The economy stays stable, and democracy keeps bad rulers out of office.

Discuss your opinion on the perfect government.

[the_vilest_worm]

Same as you, but with political campaigns funded only by the government, with the same amount of money given to everybody who has a chance.

[Bash]

I support Nordic Anarcho-Fascism (heh, my flashy name :P).

If you have a nation of people raised from birth to respect each other and to pursue a path in live they decide upon because it is most beneficial to them, then there will very rarely be any opportunity for error...as bad choices are either corrected personally or, in severe cases, eliminated arbitrarily. The method of control here would be both in the hands of people (who have the power to make decisions themselves) and for the government to step in when needed to eliminate those that do things that are defined, clearly, as wrong. Rather than a perfect 'right one way, wrong every other way' method of judgement, a more grey-area and argumentative style of justice would be implemented. While, say, things such as abortion are matters for people to accept on their own, matters such as theft, rape and murder are all punishable by immediate death...irrespective of circumstance. People can live a life however they choose, so long as it is not to oppose the government (which exists purely to make the lives of people better and eliminate dangerous rogue elements) or breaks the laws.

In this, you have both the most critical elements of anarchy (that of free choice to do anything) and fascism (that if you try to cause trouble for anyone you die). The central guiding force here is that of personal responsiblity, honour and morality...which is, to me, the highest of Norse viking ideals. You do whatever you feel is right, just and honest...and everyone else is raised to do that. The government doesn't try to tell you what is acceptable, that's for all people to decide...and should they reach different points, not say which is and isn't valid...but if you decide to do something, for whatever unknowable reason, to steal from people that worked hard to get something...or to attack the innocent...then you are simply eliminated entirely. Harsh? Well, then simply don't do it. It's that easy.

My perfect government creates a society that thinks entirely for itself and it's only real place is to eliminate those that create problems...as well as to provide very socialistic things, such as hospitals, schools and maintain a strong effective military...while keeping control over all businesses so that, even if one becomes supremely powerful, that profit is used only to benefit the entire country as a whole...rather than line the pockets of a few investors. Everyone respects everyone else, even if they don't accept them.

The law would be carried out immediately and violently and there, honestly, would be no crime. Think of the Tau in 40k...only that people are raised to think nothing at all of killing their enemies, because they are obstacles to the peace and happiness of the country...which is all that matters in the world.

That's my dream government and the utopia it would create...where there is amazing freedom for everyone because anyone that doesn't accept it is eliminated. Who are we to judge what is right and wrong? Well, that idea simply won't exist in this government...because it is right and it is all

I mean...if you're happy and you've got everything you want...do you really care if the so-called 'price' is that people that lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder and make life hard for you die a gruesomely agonising death? I wish that was the case

[the_vilest_worm]

@Bash

The purpose of the prison system should be a) to rehabilitate criminals so that they can become valuable members of society (we wouldn't want to waste them) and b) to punish them for their crimes. It's hard to find the right balance, but I think your system has a bit to much B in it's bloodstream.

Other then that, very good.

[Chton]

The perfect government would be three toddlers with rattles, or a potted plant.
It would make the people think for themselves instead of dropping power into the laps of politician prats.
Still, there would be problems with that as well. Since there are always those whom wish to rule over others.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by The vilest worm

@Bash

The purpose of the prison system should be a) to rehabilitate criminals so that they can become valuable members of society (we wouldn't want to waste them) and b) to punish them for their crimes. It's hard to find the right balance, but I think your system has a bit to much B in it's bloodstream.

Other then that, very good.

My counter to this always has been organ harvesting and various medical experiments which are both beneficial to medical science (helping the society they detracted from) and also as a means of abject terror. I mean...is that Mars bar really worth waking up on a slab with tubes coming out of everywhere and spending the rest of your short life being subjected to torturously painful medical experimentation? I think not...and I'm a man who likes his Mars bars.

[the_vilest_worm]

It's been proven that harsher punishments don't stop crimes. States which have the death penalty have just as high crime-rates as ones that don't.

And is a mars bar really worth killing someone over?

[arguleon-veq]

I also believe in Democratic Socialism, have done for a long time.

Almost impossible to implement in a society that already has it easy through Capitalism though. It would only really be embraced by poorer countries where the standard of life is lower.

Thing is, I fully believe that Capitalism leads to the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. That eventually the gap between the few at the top and the masses at the bottom will be so big that Socialism will be accepted by the masses.

I see it as Capitalism leading to Socialism eventually and Socialism eventually leading to TRUE Communism [as we grow as a people etc].

[Viorlakaisshi]

Originally Posted by Bash

My counter to this always has been organ harvesting and various medical experiments which are both beneficial to medical science (helping the society they detracted from) and also as a means of abject terror. I mean...is that Mars bar really worth waking up on a slab with tubes coming out of everywhere and spending the rest of your short life being subjected to torturously painful medical experimentation? I think not...and I'm a man who likes his Mars bars.

I read a book where scientists found a way to keep people alive for hundreds of years if they kept giving the people new organs. This lead to many people wanting organs and the demand was so much higher than the supply so the governmaent started giving the death penalty for speeding etc. It was creepy.

I think that socialism is a great form of government if you can allow peoplae to get rid of the leader. Really the main flaw in the united states' democratic system is that nowdays since the country is so big, you need to be rich to become president. (otherwise you can't afford advertising and no one will know who you are.)

IMO the perfect government would be democratic communism, the only reason communist countries are mostly poor is because capitalist countries are so much better at making money. Of course if the whole world were one communist country everyone would be happier. Gene modification may make the democratic part unnecessary. I don't know if this is possible (I don't know a lot about genetics) but if you could somehow eliminate greed in a person they would make the perfect leader.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by The vilest worm

It's been proven that harsher punishments don't stop crimes. States which have the death penalty have just as high crime-rates as ones that don't.

And is a mars bar really worth killing someone over?

Well, if someone is stupid enough to steal a Mars bar anyway, what kind of benefit do you think they will have for society elsewhere? Is it the government's place to determine that? If it's my government model, then yes...it is one of it's few judgemental roles.

As for the death penalty, that's because it doesn't eliminate criminals...it just kills off a couple painlessly and privately here and there. If every single person in those gaols was gruesomely executed, I expect the crime rate would disappear -or at least be reduced- very, very quickly for the simple expedient of there being no criminals left to commit the crimes. Harsher penalties don't really mean much unless you solve the problems in the first place and the problem, to me, is that criminals exist in the first place. Someone told me "crime will always exist in some form"...and this may be true, but if you stop it from expanding through eliminating it whenever it's found, then the world is a better place.

Some say that there will still be SOME crime...and so there may even possibly be that. There would, however, be an awful lot less. Do you think those smart-mouthed joking murderers would look so smug if they tried their nonsense in...say...Nazi Germany? How about Stalinist Russia? You'd never even THINK about stealing a loaf of bread in Saudi Arabia...or Iran...for the simple fact that there's a terrible punishment for it. These places still do have crime, but there's a lot less of it. If you increase the penalties and wipe out more criminals, there will be even less.