[Skeith]

I'm mulling over whether to buy this, and then any expansion packs that I may need.

But I was wondering.

Does it provide a good escape from warhammer and the idiots at GW?

[Daienden]

Originally Posted by Zack

I'm mulling over whether to buy this, and then any expansion packs that I may need.

But I was wondering.

Does it provide a good escape from warhammer and the idiots at GW?

That completely depends on who you play it with. Do you have a group of people already interested?

[Maine]

Originally Posted by Zack

I'm mulling over whether to buy this, and then any expansion packs that I may need.

But I was wondering.

Does it provide a good escape from warhammer and the idiots at GW?

Well, that's a roleplaying game, not a wargame like WHFB or 40k. Assuming you understand the difference, then if that's what you're looking for, then it could be a good start. However...

I'd say the tactical level combat of D&D is just downright gruelling. 4th Edition - and to any naysayers, I played in a weekly campaign for about 9-10 months - while fun at first, definitely bogs down in it's own design. You end up playing 'the system' rather than playing 'a game'. Combat is drawn out and the common options are limited in favor of per-class powers. It also interferes with (non-combat) roleplaying.

If you want an RPG, I'd highly recommend Savage Worlds for a roleplaying game. Get that, and some appropriate theme book (Deadlands Reloaded; Slipstream; Solomon Kane; MARS; Cthulhu; etc) and run wild with that. MUCH cheaper to get into, far better community support, and more licensees and growing.

[razgriz_cipher]

For dnd you need a good group and someone that is willing to dm along with players. It fun but everyone seems to only want to do combat in 4th and that is a porblem.

[Guitardian]

nowadays it almost plays like a bored-game unless you have some creative players. most dnd guys ive met are all about minimaxing stats out of a dozen different books and arguing whether they get a +7 or a +8 on a stupid roll whether or not they notice sometjing in a room. its kind of lame how they took the abstraction out of it, turning it into a game of chracter building and stacking points, instead of storytelling. you're better off developing your own simple rules for your own game than buying into the the modern dnd system imo. they have some interesting scenario ideas (check out 'ptolus' for instance - it's a work of art), but the player's minds are all in the wrong place because of the new rules, points builds, tactical maps, and so on.

Forgive my suspension of disbelief... but a heroic fantasy story doesn't need everybody to start by going to a store to buy 150' of rope, a dozen iron spikes, lantern, wolfsbane, 5 healing potions and 5 recall scrolls etc etc 'just in case' they run into this or that mishap - as if the game was just a video game. The stories should evolve with the characters, not just become a shopping list... but that's what I see in new edition dnd gamers.

[Maine]

And that is why I now play Savage Worlds instead of 4e; using the SW system we've run:

Deadlands - wild west horror; played for a few months then put on hold
Slipstream - pulp sci fi; did a short session but havent picked it up again
Crimson Skies - WW2-era pulp air combat action/adventure; still playing
Necessary Evil - super-villians turned resistance fighters; on hold due to scheduling conflicts
Rippers - victorian horror; my wife ran this for a group for a short time
Zombie Run - zombie survival; running this now for the players of my NE group

The biggest thing about going into SW from other systems is to realize it is not D&D, doesn't play like D&D when it comes to combat, and expectations need to adapt. It's much faster to play, and the power curves are very different. I've thrown my Necessary Evil group consisting of 5 supervillians with 8 minions and several vehicles into all sorts of combats. Our last NE session had a climactic battle with minigun-turret SUVs gate-crashing (and one going out of control), an airborne gunship, many enemies getting run over/shot up, grenades being thrown, a growth ray enlarging a robot to 20 feet tall to start smashing apart a building, with the finale of another gunship rising up behind a building and engaging in a point blank battle with the group's own gunship. We ran this fight in about an hour.

You can run combats with or without miniatures or grids - sometimes we use a grid, sometimes we dont and just make note of distances between groups of people and fudge it: OLD SCHOOL!

Once you know the SW system, you can play any theme (many published, and many more fan conversions, plus making your own is not at all hard).

The guiding rules of Savage Worlds are: Fast! Fun! Furious!

Plus the core rulebook is only $10.

[Wargamer]

Dear god, do not get into 4th! It's a crappy excuse for a RPG!

3.5 was fun, and our group still plays it... in a pub no less! :P

[IcyCool]

Originally Posted by Guitardian

nowadays it almost plays like a bored-game unless you have some creative players. most dnd guys ive met are all about minimaxing stats out of a dozen different books and arguing whether they get a +7 or a +8 on a stupid roll whether or not they notice sometjing in a room.
<snip>

The stories should evolve with the characters, not just become a shopping list... but that's what I see in new edition dnd gamers.

Don't let nostalgia overwhelm reality. The "magic wal-mart" craze started with 3rd (or any older version where the GM let the players purchase magic items rather than having to find them). The min-maxing of stats has been there from the very beginning (though I feel it was at its worst in 3.5), and no matter what edition you are playing, you don't need miniatures and a battle-mat.

The quality of role-playing has nothing to do with the system you are using. Look to your players for that one.

All that said, if you have never played a table top RPG before, there are a number of systems I'd recommend before I recommended any flavor of D&D. However, 4th edition is not bad at all. It's easy to learn, widely available, and has probably the biggest player base around (so you can usually find enough people to form a group, if you don't have one already).

[Ace cipher zer0]

Originally Posted by IcyCool

The quality of role-playing has nothing to do with the system you are using. Look to your players for that one.

I agree strongly with this point. Your system should not forceyou to roleplay if you don't want to (and often in my games with Wu I prefer combat to a ton of fancy roleplaying, but enjoy both equally, and can do both), but there is no way I see 4th edition prevents you from roleplaying (unless you're just focusing on stats like guitardian complained about, in which case you probably aren't that into honest-to-god roleplaying).

I feel that a lot of people just don't want to play out of the system they're comfortable in, and feel that anything different makes some aspect of the game, or anything fun at all, out of reach. I've played a few RPGs, not all based off the d20 system, and I see no reason why roleplaying or any other aspect has to be much worse than in previous editions.

[viorlashasui]

I actually have the sset you're thinking about, and I think it's a good buy. Though it doesn't include the full books, it has the rules and enough monsters to run a campaign through level 5. Plus, it's cheap, easy to learn, and has all you need to play.

verdict: yes, get it. Make sure you have a willing DM, though, or you'll be stuck doing it.