Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Fallout 3 - Karma
Reply
Old 01 Jan 2009, 22:42   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,233
Default Fallout 3 - Karma


Although I'm no doubt going to be accused of taking a video game far too seriously, I find the implentation of weighing morality in Fallout 3 through the implentation of the karma system to be troubling. Karma appears to be omniescent, for example when your character attempts steals an object from an NPC you are awarded negative or evil karma, regardless of if the act went unnoticed or not. For a second example, you are also awarded negative karma for killing a friendly wastelander regardless of the location the murder and the amount of witnesses. From the middle of Rivet City marketplace to the most remote shack in the wasteland, killing that friendly NPC will garner you bad karma.

Yet on multiple occasions I can pull out my Blackhawk and doubletap an unprepared friendly evil character at point-blank range in the noggin and scatter their brainpan all over the corrigated iron walls, and the game will actually reward me good karma for the act. In most games I can successfully use my own moral compass to play a good or evil character, but its somewhat disconcerting and disturbing when F03 rewards me with a morality cookie that is out of phase with my expectations.

Has anyone else run into this with computer games (RPGs in particular.) that involve the computer weighing the morality of your actions?

__________________
"Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon..." ~ Terry Pratchett
ParadoxRifts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 Jan 2009, 23:31   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,421
Send a message via MSN to Tech_Marine
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadoxRifts

Although I'm no doubt going to be accused of taking a video game far too seriously, I find the implentation of weighing morality in Fallout 3 through the implentation of the karma system to be troubling. Karma appears to be omniescent, for example when your character attempts steals an object from an NPC you are awarded negative or evil karma, regardless of if the act went unnoticed or not. For a second example, you are also awarded negative karma for killing a friendly wastelander regardless of the location the murder and the amount of witnesses. From the middle of Rivet City marketplace to the most remote shack in the wasteland, killing that friendly NPC will garner you bad karma.

Yet on multiple occasions I can pull out my Blackhawk and doubletap an unprepared friendly evil character at point-blank range in the noggin and scatter their brainpan all over the corrigated iron walls, and the game will actually reward me good karma for the act. In most games I can successfully use my own moral compass to play a good or evil character, but its somewhat disconcerting and disturbing when F03 rewards me with a morality cookie that is out of phase with my expectations.

Has anyone else run into this with computer games (RPGs in particular.) that involve the computer weighing the morality of your actions?
Entirely off topic -
Just how graphic is shooting someone in the head in this game? do y ou watch their head explode?
If i shot someone with a shotgun will they split in half?

I know it sounds disturbing to like that. But i love fear for that very reason.....Excellent to take my anger out on stupid enemies...shoot their limbs off, or bisect them =D
....

As far as karma thing, didn't fable have that as well? where if you did something naughty and noone saw you still would turn bad?
__________________
Tech_Marine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 Jan 2009, 23:37   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HULL- UK
Posts: 5,130
Send a message via MSN to Dezart Fox
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma

Basically, you're killing a bad guy, you're doing everyone a favour by ridding the world of him, makes you feel good, you kill and innocent person, makes you feel bad, it's not who see's you, it's more of how your character see him/herself and that reflects on his/her personality which then mankes people either like you or hate you :P

And yes, it's explody, there's even a perk which gives you MORE explody
__________________


Dezart Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 Jan 2009, 23:42   #4 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Behind you
Posts: 19,399
Send a message via MSN to ForbiddenKnowledge
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma

I've hit people in the head so hard it made all their limbs explode, leaving a bloody, limbless wreck of a corpse. So yeah, its bloody.

Will post on topic tomorrow, when not drinking,
__________________
[quote]Thou shalt not crave thy neighbour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim.
Rafe is damn sexy once he gets into his night attire.
ForbiddenKnowledge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 Jan 2009, 00:07   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HULL- UK
Posts: 5,130
Send a message via MSN to Dezart Fox
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma

Best is when you have to search the gubbins for loot
__________________


Dezart Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 Jan 2009, 00:41   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 359
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma


Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadoxRifts


Entirely off topic -
Just how graphic is shooting someone in the head in this game? do y ou watch their head explode?
If i shot someone with a shotgun will they split in half?

I know it sounds disturbing to like that. But i love fear for that very reason.....Excellent to take my anger out on stupid enemies...shoot their limbs off, or bisect them =D
....

As far as karma thing, didn't fable have that as well? where if you did something naughty and noone saw you still would turn bad?
We'll roughly 80% the time my brother hits in the head with the combat shotgun the head flies off, not to mention the amount of bodies hanging from the ceiling in raider camps i'd say it's pretty gory.

in a good way ;D
__________________
The only decent presidental canadates
http://bobthebuilt.deviantart.com/ar...gobb-101680973
http://bobthebuilt.deviantart.com/ar...dent-101681678

Guardsmen-
http://bobthebuilt.deviantart.com/ar...oster-98448744
click on it.

Apature science would to remind you that the weighted companion cube does not speak and if does it is recommended that you disregard its advice
thedestroyerofworlds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 Jan 2009, 01:49   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,233
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjim
Basically, you're killing a bad guy, you're doing everyone a favour by ridding the world of him, makes you feel good, you kill and innocent person, makes you feel bad, it's not who see's you, it's more of how your character see him/herself and that reflects on his/her personality which then mankes people either like you or hate you :P
I'm shooting an unarmed bad guy.Although a weapon will magically appear in their hands if they live through the initial salvo, most of the time they never make it through the first Vats onslaught.

Then there is the town of cannibals, where the game gives you two choices. You can either leave the cannibal folk to raise cannibal kids who'll continue the proud tradition of murdering and chowing down on wastelanders or you can kill the parents and leave the kids with the repentant elderly grandfather whom the game implies can't feed himself let alone two children. There was no real good ending to that encounter, just a superficial good karma cookie for doing the obvious

Then there is the Tenpenny tower ghouls who end up slaughtering the human inhabitants and stuffing their corpses in the basement, should you manage to convince the humans that they can coexist peacefully. Yet despite the game rewarding you with positive Karma cookies throughout the game for murdering evil characters, you will take a hefty karma hit for murdering the ghouls after they've proven themselves to be mass murdering psychos.

__________________
"Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon..." ~ Terry Pratchett
ParadoxRifts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 Jan 2009, 02:17   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,087
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma

I would say that it is psychological self-assessment. Stealing makes you more likely to do more bad things. Killing innocents makes you feel less innocent. If you are killing perceived enemies, you feel justified.

Of course, this assumes that you aren't a psychopath with a warped morality. And I am not sure why anyone else would react to it, or discuss it over the radio.
khanaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Jan 2009, 16:59   #9 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 16,024
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma

I think my biggest problem with the morality in Fallout is that it's far too visible IMHO. In the original two Fallout games, your morality score was only available via the Pipboy that you had to look at yourself (it wasn't as big a part of the game as it is in F3). There simply wasn't that "You have gained good karma" messages to let you know which way the computer counted that action.

Although I also find the lack of neutral ways through quests quite disturbing IMHO. There only really seems to be two ways out of any given quest, and they're nearly always good or evil. So if you want to play through as a neutral party, you have to do something saintly, and then either do something really nasty, or steal a load of objects that aren't yours..
FTyross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Jan 2009, 17:19   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kenosha, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,879
Default Re: Fallout 3 - Karma

Well, considered that many of Fallout 3 is in league with Oblivion, it can be noted that the karma system actually HAS usage in Fallout 3 other than getting new dialogue. I rather like the way morality is played out because it helps you to see how progressive to being whatever you are.

Plus, I love when you open up your Pipboy and if you have REALLY good karma the picture will be of Jesus
__________________

No Pity No Remorse No Fear
[hr]
"All we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."-Edgar Allen Poe
[hr]
[quote=Earring (Busy Destroying the World)]
Don't worry too much...remember...females can smell fear
Malchior is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fallout New Vegas warriorchris Other Games 52 31 Mar 2010 16:13
Fallout vs. The Eldar Scrolls (split from: Fallout New Vegas) enderwiggin Other Games 49 15 Mar 2010 22:57
Fallout 2 Circus Freak Other Games 10 17 Sep 2009 00:28
Fallout 3 F3Zero Other Games 6 14 Jun 2007 22:45
Fallout FTyross Other Games 6 04 Sep 2004 01:12