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Boss we'z are getting bomb down
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Old 01 May 2010, 12:18   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Boss we'z are getting bomb down

Hi all
recently I had a misfortune of coming across a IG players who use 2 manticores
and 2 vendettas with sneaky marbo running around and causing me grief in all aspects of the battle field. When he goes 1st my battle wagons and trukks all get fried by those things even with KFF.

Personally I run 1 squad of lootas and lots of wagons and trukks but I can't get close enough to assault. Can someone provide me with a list and tactics that can help stop this endless stream of losses that I suffer every time I play against IG and maintain flexibility against other races.
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Old 01 May 2010, 12:32   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Boss we'z are getting bomb down

Keep your forces spread out to reduce the damage from his artillery. If you're worried about him getting first turn then just spread everything out in your deployment zone, and during your first turn you can use the mobility of your trukks to bring your forces back where you need them. The mobility of your trukks and wagons is your key. Just keep them spread out until you are ready to assault.

Without more information about both of the lists that's about all the advice I can give you.
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Old 01 May 2010, 12:45   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Boss we'z are getting bomb down

This is I think the composition of his list

comand company squad
4x melta gun
chimera
voxcaster
officer of fleet
heavy flamer


elites
marbo


8x psykers battle squad
chimera
heavy flamer


troops
veternas squad
3x melta
grenadiers
lascannon
chimera
voxcaster
heavy flmaer


veternas squad
3x melta
grenadiers
lascannon
chimera
voxcaster
heavy flmaer


veterans squad
3x plasma gun
grenadiers
autocannon
chimera
voxcaster
heavy flamer

veterans squad
3x plasma gun
grenadiers
autocannon
chimera
voxcaster
heavy flamer


fast
vendetta

vendetta

heavy
manticore

manticore


lemun russ excutoiner
2x plasmacannon

MY list:

warboss
mega armour
cybork body
attack squig
boss pole


big mek
KFF
burna
eavy armour


elites
12xlootas


6x mega nobs
trukk
rein forced ram


troops
8xnobs
3x power klaw
waaagh banner
cybork body
pain boy
eavy armor
4xbig choopa


battle wagon
deff rolla
armour plates
grot riggerz
ewd paint job
2x big shootas


20xaard boyz
klaw
nob


19x boyz
klaw
nob


fast
1x deff koptas
buzzsaw
2x tl rokkita launcher


heavy
battle wagon
deff rolla
armour plates
grot riggerz
red paint job
2x big shootas


battle wagon
deff rolla
armour plates
grot riggerz
red paint job
2x big shootas

i got major tactical issues avoiding multiple barrage and side lascannon hits even with KFF
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Old 01 May 2010, 16:16   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Boss we'z are getting bomb down

Well there are some flaws in his list, so you should be able to take advantage of that. Judging by his list he probably just sets up and remains stationary so he can fire his HW's from his Chimera. What you should try to do is attack one of his flanks, so that his vehicles will not all have LOS to you.

As for your list, I would drop a few models from your footslogging mobs and give them some mobility. Your footsloggers will never be able to assault anything with how much mobility he has. In my lists I always put every one of my boyz in a trukk and just go as fast as I possible can to get to my enemy and I've done quite well against IG so far.
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Old 01 May 2010, 16:32   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Boss we'z are getting bomb down

Seeing as he spams plasma and no flamers, this is good news for you when you get in close. (Granted his vehicles have them, but if you destroy them the guys won't be popping out with flamers, which is what you should be fearful of.) Some things that Crescent hasn't mentioned are turbo-boosters and outflankers. A great way of getting to those pesky IG's lines is through these. Units that work great are Deffkoptas, Kommandos, and bikers. In one tournament I used all three, and when I went up against a guard player these Guys took out all of his artillery and main battle tanks!

The key is getting them is destructive range without getting slaughtered. With the bikes, you should turboboost them forward so they're 12" away from a tank,or whatever you want to take out. This way if he moves back you still have options with your 1" assault. Deffkoptas w/ rokkits (the kind from AoBR) are fantastic for surprise anti-tank. I see you already have a squad, so you're covered here unless you want to invest in another squad, which isn't a bad idea. You can do the same thing with them- T-boost them up in a safe zone, and then move 12" and shoot a tank from the side or behind. Another viable option is to hook one up with a buzzsaw so they can assault the vehicle if they don't blow it up in shooting. Now personally, I like to outflank with these guys. It's more surprising, and your opponent won't be really prepared to deal with them because it's random entrance and random time. If you're in range of a vehicle when you come on, nail him in the rear! If not, just T-boost somewhere safe and next turn you're in a great spot.

Kommandos fit in the same boat with these guys. There are basically two configurations. One: you take Snikrot and come in on his table edge. This a little more pricey, and isn't that reliable at anti-tank. But it's great for wiping out command squads and heavy weapon squads that are unprotected by a chimera. The other way is a PK nob. This one is great because he can get a bosspole as well. He can only come in on the sides, but with that many vehicles you'll be hitting something!

I recommend getting one or two of these units and trying them out, in addition to everything Crescent said of course IG is a frustrating army to play sometimes, but there's no better feeling than when you get stuck in with all those 'umie scum.

Sound advice, WarpSpiderMan. +1 - Grandpa Ducky
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Old 01 May 2010, 18:49   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Boss we'z are getting bomb down

Hi,
Sorry to barge in, and I wasn't going to say anything, but I've played vs a list like this pretty often.
There's a couple of things you'll realize vs his list that I don't think have been brought up.
As he's probably deploying as far away from you as humanly possibly (layering himself to get 4+ saves no doubt), he's really backed into a corner.
This gives you a single target, which is good as you have 3 Battlewagons to work with.
If he hasn't, well, take a flank and work your way forwards.

From what it sounds like, he's alpha striking you off the board in the first couple of turns.
Given his list, it's perfectly reasonable given all of the Lascannons and Manticores.
You cant really deal with the Manticores for the most part, except that they do have a minimal range that you can get some safety with, once you get REALLY close.
But how to survive all of the firepower?

1. Long Range (36"+)
At this range, his list really has you by the short and hairys.
He has plenty of firepower, but his main threats are the Vendettas and the Manticores.
How to solve this?
Adding more targets is really not the answer, as he's made almost entirely for shooting down light vehicles.
Instead, what you'll want to do is outmaneuver him.
Remember that you can angle your vehicles. Keep your forward arc to him, and the Lascannons will have a much harder time harming you.
Remember that you can hide your Lootas behind your Wagons, blocking LoS from tanks and such that would destroy them.
Open up the Lootas at the Vendettas (who, if they are shooting at your Wagon are probably out in the open, unless they've found some pretty sweet cover), and you'll shake them or bring them down in no time. Given decent rolling, you'll do sizable damage as long as your mob stays intact (which, if you don't give up LoS is actually a pretty long time). So, by turn 3 or so, they should be at least wary enough of you that you'll be able to keep them at bay. Which is all you really need.
If he's really worried about the Lootas he might throw a Manticore shot their way. If so, count your lucky stars, as it's probably just saved the life of one of your Wagons. Vendettas vs Lootas is like using a hammer to kill ants. You'll kill one or two really well, but it's not really worrying the ants too much.
As an aside:
You might want to take a mob of boyz to guard your flank, especially if he's outflanking the Vendettas. Just by being there, they can prevent Vendettas from getting rear armor shots, which greatly improves your chances of survival. You can also use the big mob to screen you from Turn 1 melta suicides (where the Vendettas scout in with melta Vets and then proceed to Melta you down).

How to deal with the Manticores... that's a tougher one.
You really can't, as he's going to have a 4+ save, and will no doubt put them in the corner to prevent you from ever being able to do sizable harm.
If he's smart, he's boxed them in tight, so you can't even Snikrot some Kommandos in. Still, doing so pushes him out towards you, which gives you an extra 1/2 turn or so of movement to get to his front lines. If he's silly enough to put a Manticore on the opposite side of the board, then it's fair game for Kommandos or a suicide Trukk.
If you ever want to see him sweat, throw the Trukk free on Turn 2, and have it speed through cover towards the Manticore. He'll have maybe two turns before you smoke it. If he moves it to keep it safe, it's good enough. Remember that you don't have to destroy a tank to render it useless. If you can put enough fear into him to keep him moving his Barrage Ordinance around (and this making it unable to fire), you've done your job.

In short, at this range, all you're doing is buying time until you can get closer. Keep the Wagons alive by keeping your front end towards the enemy, deny side shots the best you can, and give him nothing worthwhile to shoot at.
The Manticores will hurt, but you can't do much about that at this point if he's castled up well. If he's careless, use it to your advantage by sneaking in a Loota shot if you can, or use the Kopta for a side shot.

2. Medium range (<24")
Once you get closer, he'll start to bring out the Chimeras, trying to stay in and melta you out.
The simplist way I've used is to use something fast, like Rokkit Buggies to sweep in (staying within 6" of the KFF, but far enough away to screen out Meltas). The Buggies will die, no doubt, but give you enough space to start the rolling!
I notice you have a Trukk. You can do two things that I've seen useful:
You can hide it behind the Wagons to block LoS, and then either scoop up your Mek if he falls out of a Wagon, or use it as delivery for the MegaNobz.
Remember that you can also use the Trukk to block movement, so feel free to drive up to the Melta Chimeras (take the Orks out first of course), if you need to keep your Wagons going.
Again, your goal is to minimize losses and limit his movement. If he's boxed in, it's surprisingly not too hard.

3. Close range! (You can count the number of smoke launchers on his vehicles)
Ah, vets in Chimeras! An Ork players nightmare... usually...
The way I deal with vets in vehicles is two-fold:
Deff-rollas and Boarding Planks
It's pretty simple. Deff-Rolla the Chimera, trying to stay within 2" of another vehicle.
You'll probably wreck or at least really manhandle the Chimera, allowing you then in the assault phase, run down the plank and take out the other Chimera.
Don't get out of your Wagon until there are things you actually want to destroy.
When you Deff-Roll, try to aim for the "sweet spot" of vehicles, which is the area at which (if you roll well and explode the vehicle) will carry you down the line.
If you do Deff-Rolla and get vets out in the open, then it's party time!
Drop some boyz out and tie them up. Try not to kill all of them, and spread them out to try and shake as many vehicles as you can. If a PK takes one out, that's gravy. Your goal, if you can get some vets out, is to cluster around as many vehicles as possible, preventing him from moving around, and shaking everything you can get your hands on.
Remember that you cannot tank shock through units that are locked in combat, so if you can get a big mob brawling in front of his parking lot, you're all good.
Target priority would go to the Psyker Chimera, as it can easily break you, and the Lemun Russ (for obvious reasons).
Remember to stay STUCK IN, as much as possible. Spread out your attacks and hit as much as you can. Shake everything, and force the Vets to get out of their boxes.
Finish off the runties on his turn.
Deff-Roll again. Harm. Rinse and repeat.
If they try to run away, harm them with Loota fire or whatever to slow them down.

Best of Luck!

-BT
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Old 02 May 2010, 16:06   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Boss we'z are getting bomb down

Some good advice BT.

Threating him by driving a trukk straight at his artillery isn't going to get it to move. I've never known an IG player to move their artillery around. He'll just focus on whatever is the more present threat. Driving a suicide trukk at him in an attempt to make him move his artillery around will not work. His Chimeras are plenty capable of taking out a trukk while leaving his manticore open to target better units.

With the amount of short range AT he has, you're better off making sure everything hits his lines at the same time. If you stagger at all, all those meltaguns will have fewer targets to hit. You'll really only get one chance to wipe him out once you get close. It would be best to try to measure out your distance, so that he's out of range on his turn and on your turn you can drive up, unload, and assault him.
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