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Charge!
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Old 16 Apr 2010, 20:35   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Charge!

Wanted to start a discussion on how you handle charging da boyz. Meaning, we all know we're best at assaulting things and krumping them (shooty Ork list exceptions apply), but when do you charge? Do you just run headlong at the enemy to get range as soon as possible and dive on them or do you try and work some bigger plan and facilitate something with a bit more coordination and timing involved?

See, I have this bad tendency to hold back just a hair longer than I should and it's reduced what should be wins into draws or even losses. Playing with fast units like Trukk Boyz, Wartrakks, Deffkoptas and the like gives me the luxury of knowing I can get where I want quickly. On the other hand it will sometimes lull me into playing way too cautiously. If my opponent has no obvious weakness at the start of the game I'll feel them out a bit, try and bait them and wait and see what they plan to do and devise my strategy accordingly. The problem I have is against a good opponent they won't reveal this right away and by the time I see what's going on it's too late. I realize I should have landed a hammer blow earlier but the chance is gone.

The cautiousness has worked in my favor before as well. People expect all my vehicles to race across the board and unload Boyz into them and when it doesn't come as soon as they thought then they try and figure out what I'm doing and make a mistake I can capitalize on. This case however is not terribly common and usually only works on less experienced players.

The thing I love about a KoS style list is it's more fragile and relies on timing and coordinating your units. A single Trukk of Boyz won't overrun Termies but two may. But, there seems to be this fine line between timing your attacks and holding back too long. This problem isn't exclusive to fast Ork lists by any means, so how do you all handle getting that critical charge at the right time?
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Old 17 Apr 2010, 02:15   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Charge!

It really depends on what army/general you are facing. Sometimes I just drive forward as fast as possible, and then dump off my whole army. Other times I'll do a refused flank, and rush my whole army down the left flank. I think against gunlines/shooty armies its usually better to get in close combat early, because our trukks are paper thin and will likely be blown apart while maneuvering, and walking trukk boyz are useless. Against tough close combat armies, I play much more defensively and try to thin them out knowing his army will come to me and I have the speed to dictate where the battle takes place.

I remember one tense game against Nez where his nids were bearing down on me, and I thought I had one more turn to charge; he just had so many bugs coming and I thought if I charged too soon I'd be ripped apart in the counter assault. Turns out I was 1-2" too close, so he got the charge off. Judging distance well is key in determining whether or not to go balls out, or to maneuver. A lot of times you can catch your opponent in a mistake and capitalize on it, but good players don't make big mistakes usually.
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Old 17 Apr 2010, 12:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Charge!

Kill me, because I don't charge.

Well, not as much, I only assault if given the situation arises from it, I play dakka so people tend to expect me to assault, which leaves them either brace for it or trying to assault first.

If I do assault, I probably wait till they're definitely understrength to assault, we're Orks but we're not that daft to actually hit anything with our choppa and slugga. I had trukkboyz but I won't use it unless I know there's a need arises for it, like Thor, I bait them and see if they know what they're doing.
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Old 17 Apr 2010, 18:37   #4 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Charge!

It depends on the mission rather than my opponent. My way can be a little reckless, but it always worked for me since I do not bother too much about some things that people expect a common player would think of. For example, securing objectives close to me is not that important as compared to forcing them to fight near objectives they know should be theirs for the taking.

For kill points, I tend to prefer slamming at vital units of the other army with almost everything I have, while pinning the other flanks that will come to ensure the survival of that vital unit with some firepower and by blocking the necessary paths to the flanks of my forces using most of my transport vehicles to slow them down and if they die, them become wrecks and other obstacles. My battlewagon will then steamroller one of the flanks or make them move away from my major wave. If it dies, it becomes a huge dyi wreck. While the transports becoming meatshields, my boyz will reform the lines and then prepare to charge the weaker of the weakened flanks.

For Seize Ground missions, I will play around for a while and wait for the opponent to let his troops sit on the objective. Form there on it is just hunting down whoever who tries to camp. While then my army plays the role of some red indians surrounding the pioneer's caravan.

For Capture and Control, I basically will not bother setting my scoring units defending my own objective at all. I just put the pressure on the other opponent's objective will all my scoring units, while the support elements will just go and play coy with the opponent. Nonetheless I always keep a squad a distance away from my own objective just in case.Worst come to worst, make sure that the objective of mine is surrounded by wrecks of my own vehicles to make it a ta'uk'me to take my objective.

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Old 20 Apr 2010, 21:23   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Charge!

I've almost always played highly offensively with my green tide. I bring 90 boyz to the table (and another 15 lootas / other support) at a minimum, and would gladly bring more.

Since I'm not fast, I can't wait around to see what the opponent will do - I charge.
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Old 20 Apr 2010, 23:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Charge!

My list i currently play is abit of a hybrid when it comes to KoS/Shooty/Footslogging. 4 walkers, 2 footslogging shoota boy squads + tankbustas and then trukk of boyz + warboss and wagon + lootas.

One thing to learn is that while our vehicles can be taken down easily by AT weapons, other weapons will struggle against vehicles compared to orks. For this reason, having lootas and tankbustas in wagons really boost their defensive capabilities (and even range to a point). Then, if the wagon does blow up, we get wounded on 5s, which is a much better alternative to having my devilfish blown up with fire warriors inside (3+)

Thor, i do get what you are saying. As experience grows, some think that sussing out an opponent to hit them at their weak point, and being cautious is just something we tend to do on instinct, because we have seen what can happen. The question is should i hold back and wait for him to move, or should i just charge here? Its by no means an easy one and it does vary on your opponent, but more experience again will help with the application of the correct decision.

I use a Dark Eldar tactical quote - Keep on the move. Your weaponry is almost all assault based, so fire lethal volleys on your way charging into your opponent. Keep your enemy on the wrong foot - If you need to obliterate a part of the enemy gun line, then so be it.

What that suggests is that keeping them on the wrong foot will force their human errors in judging and tactics, which you can pounce on. If it is agaomst a shooty army (Tau, Guard), lingering around will not wrong foot them, they will shoot you all day and all night long. That said, identifying if your opponent has an "uber" unit (eg a unit worth 30% or more of their total points limit) then charging every unit into that squad will very easily disrupt their strategy.

A "refused flank" is a superb idea, but with my army i only have one trukk, so i make sure im in combat in turn 3, but i travel around the sides, while my opponent is more worried about the deff dread and the 3 killa kans to shoot the trukk just yet (they seem to forget the 12'' trukk + 2'' disembark, 6'' run (max) and 6'' charge i can get, so they think i am out of charge range)

A good tactic i use against guard in anhialation is to expose my dreadnoughts, but not quite enough to give them clear shots. They will shoot at them, maybe take 1 or 2 down, and then my grotzookas shoot at their combined squad (because we are playing kill points) taking out a good handful, then i drive my trukk, unload and charge up to 26 inches with my warboss and co - almost a garuntee to sweep that turn.

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Old 21 Apr 2010, 01:59   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Charge!

I like to keep a huge mob of boys in the center (sometimes more), in some cover save giving terrain and act like I'm coming for you. 30 guys with 4+ saves can take a lot of beating. Meanwhile my deffkoptas, cans and other stuff skirt around the sides to cause my opponents to not really know were to be shooting.
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Old 21 Apr 2010, 11:28   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Charge!

All good info so far. It's good to hear reinforcement on things you know but sometimes neglect.
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Old 21 Apr 2010, 22:49   #9 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Charge!

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Originally Posted by Thor{DoH}
All good info so far. It's good to hear reinforcement on things you know but sometimes neglect.
I find that neglect is not exactly the right word. Since most of us here are already scarred veterans when it comes to the game, we tend to think that people will react in a certain way because it is convenient or because you think that they think like you. But most of the time, they think differently. Same list, different mindsets on using it. Even then, that could be mutational as they have different perceptions about how you use your list, and most often they tend to work on a archetype on how you'll play based upon their experiences and thus they will try to accommodate their mindset against yours.

More ways than one, it is a battle of the wills.
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Old 22 Apr 2010, 03:10   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Charge!

Sometimes the simplest of plans works best. I tend to run Ork Hoard. Move forward until your opponent has no where left to put their models. Yes, there are pie plates. lasguns, Bolters and other such goodies out there to worry about. But numbers can win. Bring loads of Killa Kanz for the hard stuff and Lobas to winkle out hidden units and you should get a win if you keep your eye on the objective.

The best time to Charge? As soon as possible, in my opinion.

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