Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Ork Buggies
Reply
Old 17 Mar 2010, 20:18   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
Posts: 460
Default Ork Buggies

After playing around on my various army list and such, I've beginning to think something was amiss amongst the slogging and Kanbashing.

I've been contemplating alot about giving myself a choice to choose between Deffkoptas and Warbuggies. I actually prefer taking some vehicles instead of another Jetbike if I choose to have Nob Bikers or even warbikers themselves.

Now, I really can't decide though. The weapons itself and point cost seem similar in every way, they still shoot at Orky BS and they're both twin-linked. They still field in squadrons.

Which do you pick out of Deffkoptas, Warbuggy, Wartrak and Skorcha? Why as well?

Question, for Warbuggies, can they move flat out and gain cover saves? Or is that only for Turbo-boosting?
__________________
"Failure is a weakness of the enemy."
Dobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Mar 2010, 20:31   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Behind you!!
Posts: 3,308
Default Re: Ork Buggies

Hi,

I believe that they can not turbo boost because they are fast vehicles like the ork trukk.

I think that Skorchas are great but at AV10 and open topped you really need other vehicles to draw fire away from them. Big shootas on a wartrakk or warbuggy are good against guard, although could be effective against other light vehicles.

Rokkits are as good as the deffkoptas but without the use of scout so can not have the cover save at the beggining of a battle or a 24" free move. However they do have the advantage of boltguns needing 6's to do any damage as opposed to 5's.

So deffkoptas have the advantage of scout, hit and run as well as twin linked rokkits. So for me they are a solid choice as they also ave two wounds.

So really I am not sure but I think I gave a brief over view of your choices.

- Will
__________________
NADS
Will of Kaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Mar 2010, 21:39   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 743
Default Re: Ork Buggies

First of all, they're all interesting choices, but you have to find what you need for your army.
Deffkoptas are like jetbikes. Therefore, they can turbo-boost and they scout, so if your enemy is nutty enough to leave a tank anywhere 42" from your Deffkopta, well... it's not good for them. Granted, giving them at least one Buzzsaw is a must for the first turn trick, but it really only works once. They're T5 with two wounds, so decently tough, but they die to any concentrated fire. Besides that, they work well as first-turn harassers, as you can blithely throw them in front of enemy infantry to slow people down. Devestators hate these guys, as they can zip into buildings and tie up anything that's not in a vehicle.
As for the down side: Expensive. You're paying as much as a Killa Kan.
Also, it's T4(5), so a missle will insta-kill them. Also, crappy leadership at Ld7 with no way to re-roll. Best either as a single mate/pair or with 5 if you really, really want to try and deny a KP.
Oh, and I firmly believe that Hit and Run on an I2 model was made for laffs

As for the Warbuggies and the like:
Warbuggies are good for harassers in terms of getting side shots on vehicles and they CAN block steel wall advances just by running up in their faces. Note that they're made of paper, so don't expect them to last very long if you throw them away.
They can't turbo boost, but can go flat out. Wartrakks let you re-roll a terrain test, which is very good if you run them in squads as otherwise you'll lose one, but it's more points. Skorchas are... well... interesting. 12" plus flame template is about a 19" threat radius with three guys... Still not too bad.
What I've seen them best used as is screeners for Battlewagons.
Since the Wagons are going balls-out towards the enemy, suicide melta is the one thing you have to continuously worry about. You can screen the Buggies with your Wagons from enemy fire and then zip them up just as you enter potential death-melta range. Very nice also for stopping assaults. They're also vehicles so you don't have to worry about silly things like morale/pinning/whatnot.
Downside? Made of paper. AR10 on an open-topped vehicle squadron is just asking for trouble. So best to go cheap if you're going to use them. I'd recommend Rokkits if you want them to be a vehicle threat, otherwise go cheap with TL Big Shootas. Trakks are optional. If you have a KFF, they can be surprisingly resistant, and they can irritate your opponent to no end.
A cheap and horrible trick is to use them to block off exit points from an immobilized vehicle, preventing a squad from exiting.
Also remember that anything assaulting them does NOT get a consolidation move afterwards, so they can be used to block off foot-sloggers from getting to your objectives on Turn 5. As they move fast, they're hard to hit in assault.

... That's pretty much all that comes to mind.

Best,
-BT
BigToof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Mar 2010, 00:09   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
Posts: 460
Default Re: Ork Buggies

Great explanation from both of you, BT and Will.
As the reason I asked was because I rarely seen them in battle anymore, with the cheaper AoBR Deffkoptas being available, I actually seen them being used as more often as Kommandos than Warbuggies and its variant. I barely even seen Skorchas at all, except for Looted Wagon With Skorchas.

Most of the time I play footslogging and it resembles alot like a Russian Army Horde, so I thought about taking the buggies to represent some sort of mobile firesupport akin to Heavy Weapons Team to IG since they're cheaper to do and being able to flank faster especially. Deffkoptas are too expensive to do that and too fragile, even Lasrifles can kill them if they roll good; while the Warbuggies can't be harmed by any S3 weapons, if I am not mistaken that would be Guardsman and Termagants which is what I constantly play with.

The weapons aren't barely different, that's one thing I liked about but kinda loathe too, if I wanted to have a Skorcha, I can use the Battlewagon with Burna strategy, it's more survivable than AV10 Skorcha. But at least they come in squadrons of 3 and it's more cheaper point wise.

Not to mention I play Kan-bash most often too, so my Heavy Support is already took up by 2 Sets of Kans and Kannons, leaving me my Fast Attack option very empty. When I compare it in a way, with twin-linked big shootas, it's as good as a BS3 Grot Big Shoota too, you probably hit as much but faster maneuverability.

Somehow, Warbuggies are a tempting choice for me to take in my situation, as said above, but I seen a lot of people either parking their tanks behind and people moving around to avoid outflanking so having a Deffkopta is abit of a gamble. Strangely enough, our Big Shootas are actually tough enough to either glance a LRBT on the rear with a 5 or a penetrate with a 6, which is actually pretty far out.

Lastly, assaulting with either a Warbuggy or a Deffkopta is the last thing I want to do, if I kitted the Deffkoptas with Buzzsaws and rokkits designed to kill tanks and I accidentally tarpit another unit, I'm gonna lose alot while buggies are still vehicles and they can run far. Plus it needs a 6 to hit a Warbuggy if it moved at Cruising Speed or Flat Out.

Would you say Warbuggies are optional or more specialized to the army list?
__________________
"Failure is a weakness of the enemy."
Dobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Mar 2010, 02:03   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,920
Default Re: Ork Buggies

I've taken buggies a couple of times, but each time I took them I equipped the buggies with skorchas. I have enough anti-tank in power claw, koptas, and now deffrollas so I wanted something to deal with lightly armored cc squads like outflanking genestealers or daemonettes. I ran them in pairs, and they performed well each time I used them, torching dangerous units and being a pain in the butt for my opponents. If not playing a KP mission, people hate wasting shots on buggies and they are very good at blocking assaults/movements of infantry squads. You can also park them in front of vehicles to force them into shooting lanes or just slow them down.

They won't win you the game, but can be a piece of the puzzle that helps you win. Good thing is you can easily convert them from all those AOBR koptas laying around. That's what I've been doing, and I'm about 90% done.
scoutfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Mar 2010, 17:10   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,645
Default Re: Ork Buggies

I haven't done much with my Wartrakks for a long time. Mostly it's because I want a third one so I have a full squadron since I've found that in a pair it's pretty hit or miss. But, I field mine with rokkits or big shootas where you could probably get away with a pair if you're doing skorchas. That being said, I've seen them used to great effect, even against me. This one Ork player usually fields 3 in a squadron with big shootas. When I've played against him using my Marines he will typically run them up a flank all alone. In doing so I will ignore them to deal with bigger threats like the 100 Ork bodies charging down the center. This allows him to move up safely and then he just uses them to lend fire support to his main force. Having 3 Wartrakks/Buggies with twin-linked big shootas will do a fair amount of damage. Like Scoutfox is saying, they won't win you the game but they do their job well and that job is support. In addition they are generally seen as less of a threat than a unit of Deffkoptas are. Everyone knows what Deffkoptas can do these days and will make sure that unit dies early. Trakks/Buggies people will let slide, as I have, because it just doesn't have a "kill me" sign on it and you tend to figure you can remove them when you feel like it.
__________________
Thor{DoH} is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Mar 2010, 17:21   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ramstein, DE
Posts: 2,618
Default Re: Ork Buggies

I use both, but I absolutely love the buggies. I always use a squadron of three of them to shield my Trukks as they zoom towards the enemy. I keep them basic, just giving them the TL rokkits. I've played quite a few games with my 1k list, and I have actually never had the entire squadron destroyed. I quite frequently end up with only 1 left.

The first turn they rush forward, with my Trukks behind them. The enemy will either ignore them and give my Trukks a 4++, or waste valuable fire to kill the buggies, leaving the Trukks alone. The second turn my Trukks are close enough to begin assaults so the buggies aren't very much of a threat anymore and they spend the rest of the game zooming around either denying LOS or taking potshots at vehicles.

I've never seen anyone else use the buggies, but I've always been happy with their performance. The models are pretty fun to build too.

As for the Deffkoptas, I take a squad of 3 of those. I use them for a 1st turn turbo-boost to assault a squad that my opponent tries to hide in the back. They are usefull as a distraction, but as my entire strategy revolves around getting those Trukks safely to the enemy, they just don't have as large of a roll in my list.

Both of those units are great for diverting fire, which is what any small and fast unit is primarily designed for. For protecting my Trukks, I feel the buggies have more survivability. Firing at a squad all you need is wounds to kill it, and AP4 weaponry is pretty easy to find nowadays. Firing at a vehicle squadron requires a lot more to kill. Specially since wrecks remain on the table and will continue to give my Trukks a 4++ save.
__________________
Take a look at my IG/Ork project log
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,75787.0.html

USAFTACP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 Mar 2010, 20:26   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 999
Default Re: Ork Buggies


I will probably take a little heat for this comment. I've played the old codex and thew new codex and recently moved away from Orks for awhile. There were a number of reasons for my decision. I think the foremost reason is that they are a rather predictable army. Our AT is really the problem solving PK and for transports Lootas. So it becomes rather easy for meched up armies to play us. That said there a few stanout units ion our codex. that I rate fairly high.

1) Buggies are very good support units. Make no mistake about this. Equip them with Big Shootas or Rokkits and they will generally get the job done at a god cost per point ratio. But they are support. A
2) Nobs are still the premier uniyt in the codex whether riding a BW or on bikes. Avoid trukks guys. Seriously. They are made of paper. A
3) Lootas supply the extra support we need. Anything that the buggies cannot handle the lootas will. A+
4) BWs are still a decent pick and the deffrolla being validated certainly helps. B+
5) Big Mek can be useful. Not really a standout unit though. B

Now you are thinking I'm missing the all purpose boyz mob. Well boyz are outdone by platoons, guants, scouts, etc. ect. A cc mob that cannot always even win in cc? They are highly overrated. We need them of course. We need troops. But they are hardly powerful with just one halfway decent weapon per ten boys - with an abysmal BS.

Killa Kans almost made the list. I've used them and they have been okay but never outstanding. So yes I would take buggies over deffkoptas if I was playing a very competitive list.
bebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 Mar 2010, 21:11   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Behind you!!
Posts: 3,308
Default Re: Ork Buggies

Good post xx but you forgot one very important anti-tank squad.

The tankbustas, high number of rokkit shots followed but a good charge, something buggies don't have and neither do deffkoptas.

Another is the fact tat killa kans kan be a squad of 3 with rokkits for about the same points as 3 warbuggies.

So I would take killa kans personnally.

- Will
__________________
NADS
Will of Kaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 Mar 2010, 21:22   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
Posts: 460
Default Re: Ork Buggies

What I fear is, with the amount of point cost for Tankbustas, you need a huge enough mob to deal substantial damage to anything. 5 is too little and 10 is too much.

I play small point games and taking Tankbustas by the minimum or even average tends to run badly.
__________________
"Failure is a weakness of the enemy."
Dobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buggies v Kans freecloud Orks 5 27 Sep 2008 06:00
The power of Buggies!!! Hyena031 Orks 8 15 Jun 2007 16:36
Outrider buggies a possibility for the New Guard codex Jeff Games Workshop News and Rumours 10 18 Nov 2006 13:46