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The Waaaaah - A loophole?
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 03:33   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default The Waaaaah - A loophole?

I found myself thinking this afternoon. I always thought that a "waaaah" could only be declared at the start of the shooting phase, but upon rereading it a few weeks ago i realized that it could be declared anytime during your shooting phase.

The waaaah rule states that "if a 1 is made for that waaaah movement, the orks fight and the unit takes a wound". We assume that "waaah movement" is "the running of the orks after a waaaaah has been declared".

But what if we ran all our orks first, and declared a Waaaaah right at the end of our shooting phase? if we roll a 1 for running we cant lose wounds, because at that time it wasnt a waaaaah movement, and if you rolled too many 1s you could decide not to waaaah on this turn. So does that mean we can now avoid the "roll a 1 and the boyz fight and you take a wound" catch?

Lord Zambia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhontauel
4 lightening claws LMAO. wouldn't the inquisition get involved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibean
Killing terminators with flamers is like trying to stop a charging elephant with a fly swatter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genmotty
if your not going to change your ammo between battles then you deserve to be giving people rashes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrino
Ah, that's a shame. It's kind of funny, because I'd imagine that running headfirst into a force field would pretty much ruin your initiative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire at Will
Why not take over France? You could do it with a pistol, which in doing would make you the most armed man in the country.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 03:39   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

This isn't a loophole. It is abuse. I would rule that any models you had already run with the result of a 1 would take the wound. It wouldn't be that hard to remember what they were. It is for the Duration of the turn, not the Remainder. Alternatively, any units you already moved might have Fleet, but they wouldn't be able to charge because they didn't have it when they moved.

But if you have to resort to this sort of thing to win, you shouldn't be playing Orks. The little eccentricities here and there are how they are balanced.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 03:44   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
This isn't a loophole. It is abuse. I would rule that any models you had already run with the result of a 1 would take the wound. It wouldn't be that hard to remember what they were.
well if i play green tide list, then i will be running my slugga boyz every turn. right? Now say its turn 2, and i estimate about 9-12ish inches away from the enemy, so i would run ANYWAY. I only roll a 1, so i dont declare a waaah or it will be a waste. If i roll say a 3 or 4 i do, because i have some sort of chance. Of course my estimate would mean i mightnt make it, but its better than declaring a waaaah and ending up 4 inches short of an assault. Dont you think?

In the end, the 1 wound wont (shouldnt) decide the outcome of the battle, but i still think that declaring the waaah at the end of the shooting phase isnt abuse itself. I would take the 1 wound sure, but i should be allowed to declare the waaaah when i think i have a CHANCE. Is that alright or is that still abuse?

Zambia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhontauel
4 lightening claws LMAO. wouldn't the inquisition get involved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibean
Killing terminators with flamers is like trying to stop a charging elephant with a fly swatter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genmotty
if your not going to change your ammo between battles then you deserve to be giving people rashes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrino
Ah, that's a shame. It's kind of funny, because I'd imagine that running headfirst into a force field would pretty much ruin your initiative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire at Will
Why not take over France? You could do it with a pistol, which in doing would make you the most armed man in the country.
Want to play Robot Wars using 40k Concepts? PM me for details on how you can get your FREE copy of the rules.
Lord Zambia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 Feb 2010, 03:45   #4 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

It is still abuse. I would say that you have to declare it before you run with any models, because otherwise you won't know whether or not they will take wounds until later.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 03:48   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

So you have to declare it at the start of your shooting phase pretty much? (green tide lists dont shoot many weapons) No. Its not abuse, its like dark eldar using combat drugs (to get the 12inch charge) so they have a chance in assault range, during the assault phase which they wish to assault. Id be perfectly happy to see gamers do this against me, and i personally dont see it as abuse.

Zambia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhontauel
4 lightening claws LMAO. wouldn't the inquisition get involved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibean
Killing terminators with flamers is like trying to stop a charging elephant with a fly swatter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genmotty
if your not going to change your ammo between battles then you deserve to be giving people rashes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrino
Ah, that's a shame. It's kind of funny, because I'd imagine that running headfirst into a force field would pretty much ruin your initiative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire at Will
Why not take over France? You could do it with a pistol, which in doing would make you the most armed man in the country.
Want to play Robot Wars using 40k Concepts? PM me for details on how you can get your FREE copy of the rules.
Lord Zambia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 Feb 2010, 03:50   #6 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,087
Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

That is the point of Combat Drugs. The fact that you would even call this a loophole indicates to me that you recognize that it is not an intentional effect.

I don't think you would need to call it at the start of the shooting phase. There will often be times in infantry-light lists where the Waaagh is something you hold on to. You wait to see if shooting is effective, and if not then you can send in other units with Fleet.

But this is very different from intentionally Running before calling it, and then claiming that you can get the benefit of the rule without the drawbacks. If it happens now and again unintentionally, that is not abusive. But used as a tactic it is poor sportsmanship.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 03:53   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

The codex says, "if a unit rolls a 1 when making this Waaagh! movement, the Orks start fighting before they get to the enemy". If you ran first, before declaring a Waaagh, then you have no dice roll to get a 1 on, so you have to declare Waaagh first and then roll your run distances. It doesn't say if you rolled a 1 while running then you take a wound, it only happens in a Waaagh move, which is different.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 03:58   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

Okay, so how about this...

My mob of slugga boyz are roughly 9-12ish inches (estimated) and i want to get closer, and because i know i am out of charge range without a waaaah i decide to run. I roll a 6 for running. Now i know i am definately within charge range, so i declare a waaah. Any other units that ran and rolled a 1 take a wound, as normal, and my boyz charge into the enemy.

The fleet rule says "the unit may assault in the same turn that they ran" Which, to me, a unit can gain the fleet rule at any stage of the shooting phase, before or after it runs, and still have the fleet rule, meaning it can get the fleet rule after it runs, and then assault. Much like getting a warboss to join 11 boyz who are fleeing, so they regroup.

Lord Zambia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhontauel
4 lightening claws LMAO. wouldn't the inquisition get involved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibean
Killing terminators with flamers is like trying to stop a charging elephant with a fly swatter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genmotty
if your not going to change your ammo between battles then you deserve to be giving people rashes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrino
Ah, that's a shame. It's kind of funny, because I'd imagine that running headfirst into a force field would pretty much ruin your initiative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire at Will
Why not take over France? You could do it with a pistol, which in doing would make you the most armed man in the country.
Want to play Robot Wars using 40k Concepts? PM me for details on how you can get your FREE copy of the rules.
Lord Zambia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 Feb 2010, 04:07   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Posts: 2,920
Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

I still consider that shady. If I were being a dick I'd say that first unit didn't Waaagh, but instead just ran since a Waaagh was not declared. So, you get the 6" run, but don't gain the benefit of fleet. All the other units after the Waaagh was declared would be able to assault after running.

By the way a Warboss can't attach itself to a unit that is falling back; page 48, right side, 6th bullet.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 04:14   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: The Waaaaah - A loophole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoutfox
By the way a Warboss can't attach itself to a unit that is falling back; page 48, right side, 6th bullet.
Touch`e, and thanks for pointing that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
That is the point of Combat Drugs. The fact that you would even call this a loophole indicates to me that you recognize that it is not an intentional effect.
The loophole was referred to dodging the wound that orks suffered from running 1 inch. Running 6 inches, realizing you are in charge range and therefore declaring a waaaah sounds just as "intentional" as knowing that your Archon is within 12'' and wants to declare a 12'' charge combat drug use, on the same phase. In my opinion neither of those situations are abusive. If you want a real example of an actual abusive rule, ill point you to this thread.
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,93546.0.html

Im not a mean, or unfair gamer, but even i see the sense in declaring a waaah once your orks have ran, seeing that they are close enough to charge, hence giving them the adrenaline to get into combat because thats what orks long for.

Zambia

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Learn about the world from a different prospective - www.uncyclopedia.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhontauel
4 lightening claws LMAO. wouldn't the inquisition get involved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibean
Killing terminators with flamers is like trying to stop a charging elephant with a fly swatter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genmotty
if your not going to change your ammo between battles then you deserve to be giving people rashes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrino
Ah, that's a shame. It's kind of funny, because I'd imagine that running headfirst into a force field would pretty much ruin your initiative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire at Will
Why not take over France? You could do it with a pistol, which in doing would make you the most armed man in the country.
Want to play Robot Wars using 40k Concepts? PM me for details on how you can get your FREE copy of the rules.
Lord Zambia is offline   Reply With Quote
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