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From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.
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Old 31 Dec 2009, 21:25   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9
Default From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

I want to thank everyone a ton for their suggestions on building from Assault on Black Reach as a stepping stone for a full-fledged Ork army. Christmas has come and gone, and some very generous relatives have helped me gather a massive pile of Greenskins.

Now that I have them, I have... kind of a weird request.

There's an article on GW's website discussing how to fashion armies (either Space Marines or Orks) with Assault on Black Reach as the basis. I took this list as a generic shopping list rather than a direct reference for one important reason: wargear is not listed.

So, I've got a decent repository of troops to work with. What I need now is help on the details. Between looking at the actual picture of the army they've built and snooping about the Codex for wargear points values, I've had a little bit of trouble matching their designs exactly. One Trukk is depicted with a Wreckin' Ball, a Boarding Plank, and (looks like?) a Reinforced Ram, but its point value is listed at an impossibly low 45. The Nobz mob is listed at 105, but the Big Choppas they're carrying (I assume that's what the AoBR Nobz are carrying?) puts them way over that. One of the mobs of Boyz from the Battleforce is listed at a reachable 195, but the Boyz from Black Reach (with their minimalistic wargear) are at an unachievable 185. Et cetera.

I figured a better idea might be to get some pointers as to how I should give these units wargear. Here's what's been bought as a starting point:

Assault on Black Reach (a Warboss, 20 Boyz, five Nobz and three Deffkoptas, all with pretty inflexible wargear. Warboss has a PK, the boys have two Big Shootas, the Deffkoptas have Rokkit Launchas... you guys know what's in the box, right?)
Orks Battleforce (20 Boyz, 3 Warbikes, and a Trukk... not sure what wargear's in the box)
Ork Warbiker Mob (3 Warbikes with an option for a Nob)
Ork Lootas (5 Lootas, though they could be turned into Burna Boyz easily, with options for Meks)
Ork Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun (took the SAG 'cause it fit the image and the points, and this seems like a Dakka-heavy army anyway)
Ork Deff Dread
Ork Kommandos (5 Kommandos, with a PK'd Nob either as an option or obligatorily)
Ork Trukk
3 Ork Killa Kans with Big Shootas (Big Shootas or Skorchas fit the points values, but I erred on the side of the Big Shootas. Like I said, looks Dakka-heavy)

So there you have it. A bunch of Orks, a vague army list, and zero experience. How do I turn this into a reasonably well-rounded 1500 point army?

PS: My local hobby store has a reasonably flexible returns policy, and none of these (with the exception of Assault on Black Reach, of course) are opened. If push comes to shove and I have some absolutely useless units or there's an insane omission that I shouldn't fight without, tell me and I'll see about swapping some of these out.

PPS: I'll probably be crossposting this to a couple forums. Give me all the suggestions you can so I can get a wider view of how my army should work.
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Old 01 Jan 2010, 02:14   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

It really depends on what type of army you want. From what you've got you could probably do a decent kult of speed list. Are there certain units you wouldn't want to return? If I were you I'd send back the kommandos and the dread. With the refund I'd get a nobz box and with some more money a battlewagon. If you want kommandos just convert AOBR boyz, and scratchbuild a dread; they are too expensive from GW. The nobz box will give you options for those AOBR nobz, and it comes with tons of bitz.

Don't play with the lootas until you have at least 10. Anything less than that is too easy to kill, and doesn't put out enough firepower to be useful. Like me, you can use one box, and then convert the rest. Also, don't take a mek with them, make them all lootas.

I will always suggest taking the grotzooka on kans. It is really the most dakka weapon they have, and can decimate any type of troop, even the 3+ ones.
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Old 01 Jan 2010, 08:51   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

Thanks for the input!

Alright, so you're saying replace the Kommandos and Dread with more Nobz and a Battlewagon? What kind of wargear should they have (and the rest of the Boyz, for that matter)? Moreover, if I add more Lootas and Grotzookas to this (or alternately drop the Lootas altogether), will I still hover around 1500 points? Lastly, how would I go about adding Grotzookas as wargear? They don't seem to be... er... sold. Unless I can make them from what I've got in the box.

This is all helpful. Please, more!
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Old 01 Jan 2010, 09:22   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

Well we can't write a 1500 point list for you, you've got to try that on your own and then we'll critque it. I would advise at starting smaller though, and working your way up to 1500 points. Start with 500 or 750 points, assemble, paint, and play with that. Use proxies to try out different units too. Once you figure out your playstyle adding units/wargear will be a lot easier.

For nobz you want each one that leads a boyz squad to have a power claw and bosspole. If you do a nobz mob then most people vary the equipment to take advantage of wound allocation. Things you will see in each nob squad are a painboy, bosspole, at least one power claw, and a waagh banner. Besides that many people take big choppas and combi skorchas. I give my nobs cybork bodies and stikkbomms too. You have warbikers that you could turn into nob bikers, with some conversion work too.

When arming a battlewagon you have to ask if you want it to be a tank, or an armored transport. If you want a tank, go nuts and add lots of guns, armor plates, ard case, but if making a transport all you'll need is one gun for weapon destroyed results, armor plates, maybe red paint, possibly a boarding plank, and maybe a deffrolla if you LGS lets you run over tanks with it.

Do you have the Marines from AOBR, or did you get rid of them already? If not you can trade them for more Orks, or sell them on Ebay.

I scratchbuilt my grotzookas from plasticard sheets and tubing. It was pretty easy, and you can see one of them in my project log plus a lot of ideas on how to convert regular boys:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,62008.0.html

Edit: You do need to get more boyz though. Right now you've only got 40, and in my 1500 point KOS list I have 48-60. If running a footslooging list you should have 80-150, with values inbetween for hybrid lists. I would suggest getting more AOBR ones and not the boyz box. The nob in that box is tiny and the AOBR are soooooo cheap comparitively.
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Old 01 Jan 2010, 19:37   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

So I should band all my Nobz together into a 10-Nob mob? That's really the only way I can get my Big Choppa Nobz into a mob with any collection of Painboys, PKs, etc. Though it seems like I'd be frontloading all the really expensive wargear on my new Nobz, since they're the only ones with options for Painboys and PKs and Bosspoles and Waaagh Banners.

Also, it kinda seems like the thing to do is make the Battlewagon a dedicated transport and load it with Nobz. Bad idea? Good idea? A lot of people have given me the impression that a Killkannon-style Battlewagon is too expensive for its potential efficacy. How's a 'Ard Case for a transport Battlewagon? I'm a little bit confused as to whether it increases firing ports and access points or decreases them.

How many of my Boyz should be in Trukks and how many should be footsloggin' it? I already have more Boyz than my Trukks can hold, and if I'm using a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport than it'll already be full of Nobz. In theory, though, I could keep the Battlewagon on as a Heavy Support choice and stuff it to the gills with Boyz. Which is the better plan?

Lastly, I would like to keep one set of Assault on Black Reach pristine and unconverted. I play a lot of pickup games with non-Warhammery types so they can see what it's about, and currently it's my only way of forming strategies before I commit to purchases. If I need more Boyz, though, and AoBR is the way to go, I can probably convert those Nobz and add them to the Nobz mob or let them lead the Boyz.

EDIT: AoBR Boyz aren't exactly flexible on wargear. Is the Choppa/Slugga/Big Shoota arrangement they have decently adaptable?

EDIT EDIT: Should my Warboss lead my Nobz?

EDIT EDIT EDIT (sorry): What kind of weapons should go on a transport Battlewagon? Should I put a decent-size gun on there or just stick on a Big Shoota and not worry about it?

Sorry to be so inquisitive. I feel like I'm unfairly piling questions on you. This is all enlightening, and I'm excited that I might have a decent foundation here. Please share your thoughts!
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Old 02 Jan 2010, 04:29   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

All the nobz in one group with the warboss is a bit of a points sink I think. Here's how I'd separate the boyz/nobz you have now:

12 boyz/1pk nob w/bosspole in trukk with ram and rokkit (11 boyz if you convert a nob to be a KFF Mek)
6-7 nobz with various gear in trukk with ram and rokkit
19 boyz/1pk nob w/bosspole and warboss in battlewagon with big shoota and/or kannon (if you have the points), ram/deffrolla (depending on LGS rules), and armor.

Above is about 900 points depending on how you equip the nobs, and if you take a KFF Mek.

That would leave you with 8 boyz, which I'd use to convert up more lootas to get at least 10. Add the lootas, some bikes, kans, and koptas and you easily have 1500 points if not 1750. Another buy you might want to consider is a boyz of grots. They're only $15, but are well worth the 40 points in game for objective grabbing.

With a dedicated transport wagon I'd go either just a big shoot, or add a kannon so you can fire both weapons, but only if you have the points to spare. Ard case is not for transporting wagons, but only for tank variations, since it restricts assaults. I think the killkannon is a waste of points, on not that good a tank platform.

All of my boyz take trukks, so its up to you what the ratio is. The one thing to consider though, is if you have trukks you need at least 2-3 or they will die quickly. So 2-3 trukks with 2-3 footslogging would be a good mix.

As far as AOBR boyz and having choppa/slugga, that is a good weapon loadout. I have three units of choppa slugga and three of shootas. Right now I'm favoring shootas though. You can buy AOBR boyz, order shootas online, and then just chop off the original arms and replace them with shoota arms. Pretty simple conversion if you want shootas on the cheap.
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Old 02 Jan 2010, 20:35   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

I'm planning on getting another AoBR box, so that'd put my total Boyz up to 60 (since you said leaving it at forty might be a little anemic), so how might that change my organization (or would it? I could just have a big footsloggin' mob left over)?

Also, I'm confused as to how many Boyz I can fit in a Trukk. Codex says twelve models. Do Nob leaders/Warbosses not count, or am I considering one of the Boyz replaced with one of those, or...?

Also, for transports, what are your thoughts on boarding planks?

I've been writing up tentative army lists as you've been recommending things. I hope you don't mind if I put my WIP here (I'm gonna give it another go 'round in the actual Army List forum here and elsewhere once it's sorted out, of course).

HQ
Warboss w/Power Klaw/Bosspole/Cybork Body = 100 Points
Big Mek w/Shokk Attack Gun/Bosspole = 100 Points

Elites
Nobz x4 w/Big Choppa x4 + Nob w/Power Klaw/Bosspole + Nob w/Power Klaw/Waaagh! Banner + Painboy (7 total) = 250 Points
+ Trukk w/Rokkit Launcha/Reinforced Ram = 45 Points
Lootas x10 = 150

Troops
Slugga Boyz x12 w/Big Shoota + Nob w/Power Klaw/Bosspole = 117 Points
+ Trukk w/Rokkit Launcha/Reinforced Ram = 45 Points
Slugga Boyz x19 w/Big Shoota + Nob w/Power Klaw/Bosspole = 159 Points
Shoota Boyz x29 w/Big Shoota x2 + Nob w/Power Klaw/Bosspole = 224 Points

Fast Attack
Warbikers x3 + Nob w/Power Klaw/Bosspole = 115 Points
Warbikers x3 + Nob w/Power Klaw/Bosspole = 115 Points
Deffkoptas x3 w/Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcha x3 = 135 Points

Heavy Support
Killa Kans x3 Models w/Grotzooka x3 = 135 Points
Battlewagon w/Big Shoota/Reinforced Ram/Armour Plates/Kannon (ride for Slugga Boyz, Warboss) = 120 Points

Total: 1810

As you can see, I've something of a points problem. Either I need to trim the fat to whittle it down to 1500 points (or even 1750), or I need to beef it up even more to get to 2000. Tell me if I've got my organization wrong, or whether there are parts I need to bolster or play down.

Incidentally, Scoutfox, did you ever know that you're my hero?
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Old 02 Jan 2010, 21:31   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

Thanks, guess call me if you're in a burning building.

List looks good. There only a few minor tweaks I would do to bring the cost down, though I'm not counting points.

1. I think a biker boss would do well in this army. You could convert one of the nobs to be a biker boss with the AOBR warboss on a nob bike. Take the bosspole off too, cause he'll always join a unit that's got one.

1a. Take the bosspole off him, since he won't be joined to a unit. Though I'd consider getting a cheap gun battery for him to attach to, or a unit of grots to soak up return fire.

2. The nobz look good, but I'd swap out at least one big choppa for a combi skorcha. That weapon is great at thinning hordes of elite cc units before you charge in.

3. I think I would combine the two warbiker mobs into one of five instead, and have the warboss join them. That would save you some points, make them more survivable, take off one killpoint, and help with morale.

4. I've had a lot of luck running koptas in pairs, since they can always regroup. I use one with twin linked rokkits, and the other with a big shoota/buzzsaw. The pair comes in at 105, saving you 30 points.

Not sure what that would bring you to, but that's my opinion. Now for your questions:

Trukks can fit 12 and battlewagons 20, which includes boyz, nobz, and ICs. So if you want a warboss in a trukk you need to have 10 boyz, a nob, and the warboss.

I've never tried boarding planks, but I've seen some used in the battrep section, and I'm thinking of trying them out.

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Old 04 Jan 2010, 01:30   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

Re: Warbikers/Warboss: Should I keep a Nob w/Bosspole in there, since the Warboss won't have his?

Re: In 1a. I assume you're talking about the Big Mek, right? I thought about keeping him around the Lootaz, since they're the only ones with any significant range to speak of. Good/bad idea?

EDIT: So do I need to trim my list down to, say 11 + Nob and 18 + Nob? Or does adding the Nob automatically assume you've switched him out for one Boy? I'm not sure how the points/listing convention works. Codex calls it an "upgrade," so I assume I'd keep the same points and not subtract 6 to replace a Boy.

Thanks for the clarification and the tweaks. I'm just about ready to get all this underway.
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Old 04 Jan 2010, 04:59   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: From AOBR to 1500 points... paid.

As long you keep the bosspole on the nob, you'll be good.

If you are going to put the mek with the lootas then the bosspole makes sense, but it paints a larger target on that unit. Go ahead and try it, and see how the combo works. You might have enough other distraction units to keep the lootas safe.

The nob is just a more expensive boy, so they are 46 points with a power claw and bosspole. The nob takes up a slot in a transport too, so a trukk has 11 boyz and 1 nob. If you want an IC to join the unit you need 10 boyz, 1 nob, and 1 IC.
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