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My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica
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Old 23 Nov 2009, 21:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

My Deffdread and Me
By BigToof

I know this format may be a little weird, but I'm pretty nostalgic about my DeffDread and namesake, "BigToof."
I was going to put this into the "Making Poor choices Better" topic, but it just totally blossomed out of control.
I guess that's what sentiment does (besides getting you in trouble)...

FAQs:
1. What is a Deffdread?
A Deffdread is the Orky equivalent to a Dreadnaught, in which an Ork is placed into a big metal can.
But that is where the comparisons end.
Where the Marines place their eldest, most worthy warriors into their adamantium plated gothic wonder-creations, the Orks put the one Boy who wasn't fast enough to step back when the Meks and Doks asked for "volunteers."
So, as one can imagine, Deffdreads are not top quality in terms of performance. They have basic Boy stats (i.e. good WS, lousy BS and I) and are now far tougher, having Dreadnaught-like armor.
Usually, they're pretty ornery and like to run out smashing their saws, hammers and big fists into whatever they can find.

2. What options do I have for my Deffdread?
The Deffdread has a number of options, Rokkits, Big Shootas, Skorchas and more DCCWs! You MUST take two, so depending on what you take, the cost can go up in a hurry. They can also take extra armor and grot riggers, which are nice for extending their lifespan (for more points of course).

3. Why do people say they're a "poor choice?"
Well, the Deffdread has a lot of things going against it:

A. It's slow
Without WAARGH movement, it'll be behind even your slowest footsloggers, and if you're eager to have hitting done, that's not a good thing.

B. It's inaccurate
This is a strange comment, but comparing them to Killa Kans, the Deffdread can't shoot worth beans.

C. It's an easy kill point
A lot of people run their dreads out in the open and yes, they get shot up. And yes, they fall down.

D. It takes up a heavy slot!
With the other choices for heavy support being Battlewagons and Killa Kans, it's hard to make room for a Deffdread... (or so it seems).

E. The model costs (in $$) as much as a Battlewagon!
I can't do anything about this one, sadly enough

4. So how is a Dread "worth it's points" then?
I dislike this question, as it actually means, "how can my Dread take down 95-130 points of guys?" The simple answer: He can't. If you put a strict point to kill ratio, the Deffdread lies near the bottom. He won't be able to take down that many guys.

...

So then how do you use him?

...

How I use a Deffdread:
First off, this is just my opinion, and stems from nothing more than playing BigToof in nearly every game at every level from combat patrols to 'Ard Boyz tournaments. Please have your own opinions, it's perfectly fine! But listen to my points before you toss aside the Dreads...

1. Dreads are great in Dawn of War
What? But they don't shoot? And aren't they Heavy Support Choices?
Not so, if you take a Big Mek. The Dread then becomes a Troop choice and can be placed in Dawn of War.
Nothing makes an impression like a big Walker coming down in the middle of the table (in cover, please!), forcing everyone else to deploy 18" away from him. It's a small investment for early table control.
One tactic that I see a lot of IG doing is putting down a wall of Chimeras if you put nothing on so they can spotlight everything turn 1. If you put the Dread out, then it'll back them up and force them to readjust their thinking.

2. Dreads are great against a lot of very troublesome units
My favorite comment ever "said" by BigToof is "Pet the Moo-Cows!"
It refers to his near-invulnerability to Bloodcrushers, a normally very troublesome Daemon unit.
Dreads can take on anything with S5 or less and sit there ALL DAY. Chaos Spawn? No problem. Berzerkers without a fist? Lightning Claw Termies with Shrike or Corbulo? Pack 'em in two at a time!
Just remember to be a bit more careful if they're RENDING though.

3. Dreads are surprisingly deadly in cover
Putting a Dread 3" from an objective in cover just demands that they be taken care of.
A lot of things will assault the Dread thinking that it's an easy kill, but if they don't have frag grenades (which many big assaulty things don't), then they will hit after the Dread. With it's many, many S10 attacks...

4. Dreads are easy to screen/great screeners!
Dreads are that perfect size that if you want to screen them for a 4+ save, it's as easy as putting a few Boyz between him and the multi-melta. If you want the Dread to do the opposite and return the favor if there's a lot of heavy bolter, it's easy as well, as the big-based walker can screen a good portion of the field with ease. Additionally, a KFF is a great help to a Dread, as it gives them 4+ as well!

5. Dreads cannot be ignored
Dreads are big, bold, and in your face. It's a psychological effect that many people can't get past. Expect a lot of pot-shots, and they're tough enough that your opponent will need to divert some of his precious tank-busting melta or ordinance to deal with them. If you put them near an objective, they must be pushed off, as otherwise they contest it pretty easily! Also, they can't be tank-shocked as readily as Boyz, so that sort of shenanigans is right out!
In addition, just them moving around causes a substancial 12" threat radius to bust out in your opponent's mindset, nicely herding them (or attracting them, depending on the unit) to where you want them to be.

6. Dreads can be ignored?
Now this flies in the face of point#5, but really, I've noticed that BigToof is ignored a lot of the time, especially if I don't move him. The battlefield is a chaotic place, what with deep-striking, turbo-boosting and massive tanks crunching everywhere. If a Dread is in a good location (i.e. near an objective in cover), he can seemingly blend in, especially if he hasn't "done anything" (you know, other than secure that objective). I've seen many opponents Rhino rush in and blast a bunch of boyz only to realize that the "Ninja Dread" is there! The same with outflanking Genestealers, who hate BigToof's Skorcha. Oh, and Genestealers? Love 'em. Granted they have rending, but after a bit of Skorcha love, there aren't THAT many left. And you'd be surprised how bunched up they get when trying to take down Lootas

7. Dreads can climb buildings!
This is sort of a weird thing to mention, but a lot of very tough units (i.e. Nob Bikers) can't climb up buildings and get rid of those pesky marines hiding up there. A Dread can do it pretty readily and also it prevents the Marines from getting down! (which is sometimes "good enough" )

8. Dreads are CHEAP
Although you can really spend out big and get every bit and bobble, I've always gone cheap with BigToof and never been disappointed. Granted he gets immobilized or stunned, results that would have been mitigated with Grot Riggers or Armor Plates, but that's not really what he's there for. He's there to get in the way, kill things, and occasionally get blown up so the opponent can feel good about himself

9. And finally... Dreads are fun.
Besides having a lot of very fun modelling options, the Deffdread model just begs to be modified or just changed around completely! I personally use a modified Space Marine dread with a lot of Orky Bitz, painted a garish green and purple. They're fun and you can have a lot of enjoyment in deciding what your particular mayhem-maker will look like.
Oh, and make sure to lord it up whenever your Dread kills something of worth After all, he's a "poor" choice, and if he takes down something on the other end of the food chain, it's a memory worth savoring... (Like the time BigToof took down a Hive Tyrant... But that's another story...)

Thanks for reading!

Best,
-BT
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Old 23 Nov 2009, 23:07   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica


An excellent writeup. But I have to repeat what I wrote in my Dreadbash tactica ....

Kans have a better BS and Dreads have better cc stats. Arming Dreads with anything but scorchas can lead to a lot of missed shots. Generally Kans are more worthwhile then Dreads. Two Kans cost the same as your one dread and have as many attacks as your Dread. The little extra boost in a Dreads armour is not that significant. So I weould only take them if my heavy slots were full and I had a Mek that allowed me to use the Troops FoC slot.
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Old 23 Nov 2009, 23:15   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

Nobody's Home:
Thanks for the reply!
I truly understand that Killa Kans are far more shooty (and cheaper) than Dreads.
I used to think that the jump from AR11 to AR12 isn't that much, but it can surprise you! (Think how much harder it is to take out a Chimera than a Rhino...)
Re: Skorchas, I truly agree. Skorchas are a Dread's best friend (next to another DCCW). They have a deceptive range, and you can Skorcha quite a bit (even from within cover!)
A Big Mek is really necessary if you're going to take a Dread, as I think that making a Dread a Troop choice is really necessary for some of the Shenanigans I pull (especially in DoW).
I tend to use the Dread as a fire magnet/bait (don't tell him that), and as a defensive "surprise." He's not as dynamic as a group of Kans laying down Rokkits or Grotzookas, but he does his job, and I like him
Thanks again for the post, and I did read your Dreadbash tactica, top work that is! This tactica isn't meant to replace your words, but instead just to give my PoV (which is again, just my opinion, and not in any way authoritive).

Best,
-BT
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Old 24 Nov 2009, 00:41   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

I'm enjoying these conversations with you Big Toof. You have played enough games against enough opponents to have a very good feel for the game and your tacticas are very good. I know they are an addition not a replacement ... I have picked up a few pointers from each one.

Being a troop choice just makes it easier to use your FoC effectively. They still do not score though which to my mind is a very big drawback. So I'm using them in Zilla type lists only. I do like Dreads ... just tend to use Kans a lot more especially since I began using Grotzookas ... they are a really, really good weapon.

I rank strong units in 5ed thus ...

Lootas
Kans
Grots
Deffkoptas
Boys

After those choices I go

Bikes
Meganobs
Nobs
Buggies
Battlewagons

If I am truly trying to stay uber competitive these are the units I will use. I'm not sayin Stromboys, Trukks, 'Ard Boyd, Tankabustas, Burnas, Dreads and Kommandos are bad. They just do not appear in my most competitive lists. Understand that this is just what I have found playing my regular opponents. I do play casually though. Then I will use these units and play my Iyanden lists as well!

BTW, the lone exception to my rule are a battery of big guns which in the right list can be a very competitive choice ... I'm on the fence here and really don't know where to place them in my list of usuable units.

At this point I think it is time for me to stop poking my head into the Ork boards again. I guess I jsut missed you guys.
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Old 24 Nov 2009, 08:38   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

Nobody's Home:
It has been enjoyable talking with you as well.
I understand the urge to stay very competative, and it's a good drive to have.
If anything, it keeps you focused, and lets you better refine your playing style.
It sounds as if you've been around for a while and are trying to find a way to adapt to the new meta-game (which is currently Mech, something that Orks have a bit of a problem with).
I'm in a similar situation, but I've come to the realization that the best way to solve a problem is to keep an open mind and find your own solution to the situation.
...
That being said, I'm always on the lookout for some way to potentially combat the limitations of my list, and that struggle is what makes the game fun. For me at least
...
It's truly up to you if you wish to continue posting on the Ork boards, and I understand if you wish to wander a way for a bit (I've done it myself), but the nice thing about the internet is that it's easily accessible, and you can always come back, if only to poke your head in once in a while. Will always be looking forward to your posts.

Best,
-BT
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Old 24 Nov 2009, 11:26   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

Good read there, I bought a Deff Dread last week and this has been quite informative. My Deff Dread and me! lol classic
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Old 24 Nov 2009, 15:02   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

I've only fielded a Dread a few times but when I did I fielded it defensively to deter outflankers. I usually only use 10 Grots w/Slaver for holding my home objective, though I may also have Lootas and or artillery back there, the Grots are my only troop controlling it. It makes people think twice about that outflank move or deep striking in your back lines. They may still choose to do it of course but that's why the Dread is there. I run mine with 3 DCCW and a skorcha and just light them up and charge what's left; which has worked effectively so far. Probably for the price Kans may be the more cost effective option even used defensively, but it is that psychological threat of an AV12 walker that may come your way.
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Old 24 Nov 2009, 23:02   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

Waaghsteve and Thor:
Thank you for the replies!
Glad to see that the Deffdreads are still out there doing their mischief.
If everyone at least tries a Dread before writing them off, then I feel that I've done my job
I find that DoW may be the Dread's greatest time to shine, as you can place them midfield in cover, and thus a lot of the walking is already done for you!
Plus it makes your opponent have to deal with something krumpy very soon, and it attracts Melta like flies to honey (and watch out, they'll get stuck!).
BTW, there is no greater joy than driving up with a Big Mek, having the Mek leap out and fix the Dread, and then walk on

Best,
-BT
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 13:35   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

As you have mentioned, rending IS a Deffdreads biggest problem (next to facing loads of Lascannons). In the bug army I play I run broods of eight Genestealers with the strength upgrade and scuttlers. If they get a charge on a Deffdread, they have a very good chance of punching it through rending.

Deffdreads are very good to have in objective games.
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Old 25 Nov 2009, 13:44   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: My Deffdread and Me: A DeffDread Tactica

IVEATCH:
Thanks for your comment!
Rending is a nasty upgrade for Genestealers, and is the main reason why I keep BigToof nicely away from the sides.
I've only seen Genestealers "go cheap" once with only scuttlers, and they really paid the price when they were roasted by Skorcha and then assaulted.
Some Nid players assume that Genestealers can destroy anything in assault, and it's sometimes true, but not really when you only have 2 of them
Positioning is very important for Dreads, and I like to keep BigToof either advancing aggressively covered by a KFF, or in cover, hanging JUST inside of 3" from an objective. Sometimes, I can put him behind a wall, and that's even better. There's nothing better than having an opponent run up to an objective, do a little dance, and then have the dread walk out and give them some hurt! One of the most memorable moments I've had for BigToof was when he was immobilized 3" from an objective, and the opponent zipped in for a Turn 5 move (I can't remember if he was Eldar or Marines, probably Marines) and was confident that he had taken it... Unfortunately, he forgot about the Dread that had been sitting there for 3 or so turns and that cost him the game

Best,
-BT
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