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daemon vs orks
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 08:15   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default daemon vs orks

recently a daemon army has cause my ork army alot of trouble with blood crushers. I want to know how you guys fight them. The main trouble have when fighting bloodcrushers is that they are very hard for me to hurt and getting pass their saves is almost as annoying. 20 orks just do the job vs crushers and nobs get fried and i don't want to give up my deffkoptas which are hopeless in DOW scenarios. How should this be dealt with i have tried using shoota boyz on blood letter but they just don't do the job well. and my Battle wagons are normally ramming into soulgrinders to kill them.

big daemons are also a hard match up because i have to rely on range which is orks worst ability and ghazskull can only kill 1 with his waaargh
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Old 24 Oct 2009, 08:22   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: daemon vs orks

You are going to need to provide a lot more information than that. What point levels do you play at, what do you have, what do they have, what wargear to the blood crushers take, do you use the 25% terrain rule, what tactics does your opponent use you find hard to deal with specifically?

If you don't make your questions more than just one liners, people are going to start ignoring your queries.
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Old 25 Oct 2009, 21:36   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: daemon vs orks

Personally, I would use a mob of 30 Ork boyz with 3 big shootas and a kitted out Nob leading them as this can easily take on the average blodletter squad (and any other lesser daemons) but against bloodcrushers I'd probably use warbikes with a PK nob just to deal a killing blow.
Against Greater Daemons (Bloodthirsters) you might consider using a large mob of boyz, but have them lead by a PK warboss/Mek.

IMO a 30 strong boy mob with a PK nob can cope with 97.3% of situations (except those involving speed)
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Old 26 Oct 2009, 09:19   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: daemon vs orks

I have no problem with daemons when i'm playing.

I play quite a battlewagon heavy nob army, but I reckon you should get a unit of 10 tooled up nobs, with painboy, cybork bodys, eavy armours, 7 big choppas, waargh! banner, and 2 power klawz for 425pts..

scar.
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Old 26 Oct 2009, 09:27   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: daemon vs orks

here is my list can u guys suggest how to improve it?

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,89697.0.html
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Old 28 Oct 2009, 09:07   #6 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: daemon vs orks

Your list is fine. It's just you.
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Old 29 Oct 2009, 19:59   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: daemon vs orks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Your list is fine. It's just you.
A little inappropriate, Zenai. You don't have any business making comments like that without providing any actual help. It is just spam. >

[hr]

I do think the problem is the list. There is far too much spending on upgrades and not enough spending on numbers. Aside from a few units such as Nob Bikers, Orks really need to put the majority of their points in outnumbering the enemy. One Buzzsaw in a unit of Deffkoptas is usually enough. Having one on all three makes them too much of a target, and their main role is harassment anyway. It is the weakest Power Klaw in the army but it costs the same as the others.

I don't really like Shoota Boyz in general. I know they have uses, but Slugga/Choppa Boyz seem to play to the strength of the Orks more effectively. If you do run Shoota mobz, it is worth cramming as many Rokkit Launchas into each mob as possible.

I would not use Ghazghkull in an Evil Sunz list, which is pretty much what you are running aside from the lack of Bikes. Ghazghkull works best in a Goff-type Ork army. Tons and tons of large mobz of Boys slugging their way across the table. Evil Sunz need the Waaagh! move less than other variants of Orks, since generally they will be charging out of vehicles. That is a lot of points that would be better spent on more Trukks for the Boyz or on Warbikes/Warbuggies.

You are also front-loading your vehicles maybe a bit too much. All of your Trukks need to be red, but they don't all need Armor Plates, Riggers, and Reinforced Rams. All the upgrades in the world can't do that much to save an armor 10 vehicle. Their best protection is not being the most obvious target. Actually, come to think of it their best protection is a Mek with a KFF, and that can screen all of your vehicles if they stay together. That might be a good replacement for Thraka.

The Nobz with the Painboy can't have 5 Big Choppas. At least one of them needs to be the Painboy with a 'Urty Syringe.
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Old 01 Nov 2009, 13:15   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: daemon vs orks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
I do think the problem is the list. There is far too much spending on upgrades and not enough spending on numbers. Aside from a few units such as Nob Bikers, Orks really need to put the majority of their points in outnumbering the enemy. One Buzzsaw in a unit of Deffkoptas is usually enough. Having one on all three makes them too much of a target, and their main role is harassment anyway. It is the weakest Power Klaw in the army but it costs the same as the others.
^ This. You need more boyz. You could very easily afford another 50 boyz by dropping upgrades and such. For example, at 1,500 points (which is all I have right now) I'm running ~120 regular boyz, a unit of nobz and then a battlewagon plus my HQ choices.

You really don't need Nobz and Mega Nobz. My suggestion would be to run Nobz or Mega Nobz or Ard Boyz but not any two. Also, you can excuse two units of Nobz in most double warboss lists but I would never take two units of Mega Nobz. So if I were you, I'd consider dropping one or the other.

Quote:
I don't really like Shoota Boyz in general. I know they have uses, but Slugga/Choppa Boyz seem to play to the strength of the Orks more effectively. If you do run Shoota mobz, it is worth cramming as many Rokkit Launchas into each mob as possible.
I am going to have to disagree here. Slugga/Choppas should be the core of most Ork lists, for certain. They are absolutely overwhelming. However, I think the key to running numbers in Ork lists is to mix and match. Shootas can be the bane of some opponents / lists with their range and amazing amount of shots. Even at our poor BS, Shootas can be harsh.

I do agree, though that Rokkits belong with Shootas. I tend to refrain from putting upgrades in Slugga mobz since they want to be Waaaghing anyway.

Quote:
I would not use Ghazghkull in an Evil Sunz list, which is pretty much what you are running aside from the lack of Bikes. Ghazghkull works best in a Goff-type Ork army. Tons and tons of large mobz of Boys slugging their way across the table. Evil Sunz need the Waaagh! move less than other variants of Orks, since generally they will be charging out of vehicles. That is a lot of points that would be better spent on more Trukks for the Boyz or on Warbikes/Warbuggies.
Agreed. Think about points. You're paying for Ghazghkull's ability to Waaagh. But then you don't use it because you're on vehicles.



[hr]

That said, Orks have two main advantages over Daemons. 1 ) Numbers. 2 ) Numbers.

1 ) Numbers. Daemons lists tend to win from attrition. Because only 1/2 their army is on the board at the beginning of the game, they aren't going for the quick takedown. Instead, they're going to make you focus on the initial force while they constantly drop in new units to pick you off at the flanks and rear.

Against Orks, this tactic isn't always workable because a single unit of boyz can tie up multiple units of Daemons and (if done right) can overwhelm them. Thankfully, you don't have to allocate your whole army to take care of the initial force. You can send a few mobz of boyz to tie them up while other parts of your force spread out to make life miserable.

2 ) Numbers. This is the key to Orks against Daemons. Everything in the Daemon army deepstrikes. That means they need one resource on the board - open space. Thankfully, through a combination of mobz, trukks, and jetbikes, we have the ability to take up a lot of the board.

This is exactly what you need to do. During deployment, spread out. Make it impossible for him to move into your deployment area. During movement, work to eliminate open terrain where he can deep strike safely. If done right, you can force him to start taking deepstrike mishap tests early on. This puts the initiative clearly in your favor. If you can kill a few units like this or at least decide where units will deploy (i.e. difficult terrain) you'll quickly turn things in your favor.

Best of luck,
Em
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